Charlie Kirk.

[crystalrainfall]

I would like take this time to honor Charlie Kirk, a Sabbathkeeper. He was a wonderful person who was not afraid to speak his beliefs about religion or politics. He believed Jesus rose from the dead, and he confessed Him with his mouth. He will definitely be saved and it gives me comfort to know that. His life was taken way too early, but we do not know everything God knows. We are told at times God takes away the righteous to spare them the evil to come. We also know that we are not able to search out the knowledge of God. Job never knew why he had he suffer. He had to trust God and will find out why he had to suffer when he gets to heaven. In times like these, we need to trust God. He did not cause this tragedy, but He allowed it. For what reason, we do not know. Like Job, we will have to wait until we get to heaven to find out. For now, let us focus on living for Christ and forsaking all known sin. Let us be ready to meet Jesus Christ when He soon comes.

 

[Chief]

My heart goes out to his family.

 

[rob]

Thanks Crystall and Chief, my heart admires his courage. It's a cruel world when people murder you just because your religious views are different to theirs?

 

[Chief]

I don't even know how to describe the ease with which people can take other's lives. I tried imagining this assassin following the target, gathering their itinerary, planning how they will execute the heinous act and disappear without being spotted. All in broad daylight, in the presence of thousands of people. I am unable to understand their mindset.

 

[rob]

I have listened to many videos of Charles Kirk, he was really a debate person, and some topics I would consider off limits.
What do you do in your church when one is very vocal against you, when you simply want to bring to his attention something the Lord presented to me, but he does not want to know. The topic is genuine faith. You Chief even stopped wanting to here me, indeed so did this elder. In fact both of you don't even know what we were presenting in the first place, but the topic offends you. It is this "right verse wrong" idea, so the person feels offended. I don't go to his church anymore. I feel Charles Kirk made a point. Why do people feel offended? And why don't people hear their opinions out? Instead we shut down their talking before hand, and get offended over a matter we do not even fully understand. It has become a very big issue : Does this mean nobody feels safe to bring new light into our church? To me, so far, my experience is no, it is not safe, all they do is get offended.

I remember once an elder invited me to join in a secret meeting with a strange speaker "James Stump, an SDA with a very different view on the HS. Do you know him? I listened to his humble pious speaking for hours, and purchased his 450 page book. I prayed to the Lord how do I answer this person, and God impressed me to buy an electronic Bible that shows Hebrew and Greek.

A few months later I went back to the Elder to debate this issues with James Stump on the HS and the elder was offended by me and refused to listen. Absolutely refused ! And he did not hear a single response from me. I could pick any topic you would disagree with me on, and I guess you would refuse to enter into a debate with me. Why do people do this? Why do we allow ourselves to be deceived by the Scriptures, following traditions and precepts of men, instead of reading the Scriptures properly? How many of us read EGW for instance? Charles Kirk raised a very strong point that exists in our Church. Shalom

 

[Chief]

@rob , would you be surprised to learn that I am actually a research scientist and not a theologian in real life?

 

[rob]

How nice Chief, I have a Bachelor Degree in Agriculture Science, 1981; and a Electrical and Electronic Degree, 1998.
That makes us on the same page. My experiences in the Lord, come from The Lord and Me, (self taught) : I used to be a paper Bible reading person with concordance, but after my run in with James Stump, I use an electronic Bible and EGW all the time, reading the Bible in Hebrew, to make sure it is translated with truth. Though my favorite translation is KJV.

Charles Kirk is much more bolder as a debater than me, as I consider many topics off limits.

Since your a research scientist as I am, tell me what do you mean, and what does our Church mean by describing the HS as a "He"? This addition of such words, to our Creed never happened during General Conference sessions, so came in, I assume my Masons. When I was baptised in 1981, no such words existed back than. Today I would no longer be considered a SDA because I do not agree to this notion of the HS as a "he", whatever that notion means. I have never found any SDA literature explaining why? So being a research scientist such a topic might interest you. And you can defend your view, against mine. And unlike our friend Charles Kirk I am not offended by your comments, but welcome them, because surely the Bible sets forth truth, doesn't it? Unless we stick to traditions and precepts of men, I don't. I tried bringing my views to the SDA church, way back in 2010, a Dr Peterson back than, a lovely man, have met him, he has died now, bless his soul, and back than the Church completely tore my study to shreds without telling me why. Like I said the church does not like to debate, it easily offended, and refuses to discuss truth as both sides present it. Are you willing to discuss, without getting offended? God bless men like Charles Kirk? Shalom

 

[seeker]

I have listened to many videos of Charles Kirk, he was really a debate person, and some topics I would consider off limits.
What do you do in your church when one is very vocal against you, when you simply want to bring to his attention something the Lord presented to me, but he does not want to know. The topic is genuine faith. You Chief even stopped wanting to here me, indeed so did this elder. In fact both of you don't even know what we were presenting in the first place, but the topic offends you. It is this "right verse wrong" idea, so the person feels offended. I don't go to his church anymore. I feel Charles Kirk made a point. Why do people feel offended? And why don't people hear their opinions out? Instead we shut down their talking before hand, and get offended over a matter we do not even fully understand. It has become a very big issue : Does this mean nobody feels safe to bring new light into our church? To me, so far, my experience is no, it is not safe, all they do is get offended.

I remember once an elder invited me to join in a secret meeting with a strange speaker "James Stump, an SDA with a very different view on the HS. Do you know him? I listened to his humble pious speaking for hours, and purchased his 450 page book. I prayed to the Lord how do I answer this person, and God impressed me to buy an electronic Bible that shows Hebrew and Greek.

A few months later I went back to the Elder to debate this issues with James Stump on the HS and the elder was offended by me and refused to listen. Absolutely refused ! And he did not hear a single response from me. I could pick any topic you would disagree with me on, and I guess you would refuse to enter into a debate with me. Why do people do this? Why do we allow ourselves to be deceived by the Scriptures, following traditions and precepts of men, instead of reading the Scriptures properly? How many of us read EGW for instance? Charles Kirk raised a very strong point that exists in our Church. Shalom

Does Charlie Kirk death redeem the way he lived?

 

[seeker]

I have listened to many videos of Charles Kirk, he was really a debate person, and some topics I would consider off limits.
What do you do in your church when one is very vocal against you, when you simply want to bring to his attention something the Lord presented to me, but he does not want to know. The topic is genuine faith. You Chief even stopped wanting to here me, indeed so did this elder. In fact both of you don't even know what we were presenting in the first place, but the topic offends you. It is this "right verse wrong" idea, so the person feels offended. I don't go to his church anymore. I feel Charles Kirk made a point. Why do people feel offended? And why don't people hear their opinions out? Instead we shut down their talking before hand, and get offended over a matter we do not even fully understand. It has become a very big issue : Does this mean nobody feels safe to bring new light into our church? To me, so far, my experience is no, it is not safe, all they do is get offended.

I remember once an elder invited me to join in a secret meeting with a strange speaker "James Stump, an SDA with a very different view on the HS. Do you know him? I listened to his humble pious speaking for hours, and purchased his 450 page book. I prayed to the Lord how do I answer this person, and God impressed me to buy an electronic Bible that shows Hebrew and Greek.

A few months later I went back to the Elder to debate this issues with James Stump on the HS and the elder was offended by me and refused to listen. Absolutely refused ! And he did not hear a single response from me. I could pick any topic you would disagree with me on, and I guess you would refuse to enter into a debate with me. Why do people do this? Why do we allow ourselves to be deceived by the Scriptures, following traditions and precepts of men, instead of reading the Scriptures properly? How many of us read EGW for instance? Charles Kirk raised a very strong point that exists in our Church. Shalom

Look at this. Do you agree with Charlie Kirk they aren’t smart enough and took a white persons job slot? Yes or know please. And do you think Charlie Kirk was a racist, yes or know.

 

[rob]

Does Charlie Kirk death redeem the way he lived?

Greetings Seeker, you have followed me here on Adventist Forum. You can always post on my other forum if you want?
You ask a question, that is really not about me? You read my reply on my other forum.

So it's over to you to make detailed reply? I have no idea what your saying or what you mean?

We are taught in the Scriptures not to judge any man, lest we ourselves by judged. I have listened to many of Charles Kirk videos, and he was quite a debater. But just because he spoke differently to how I would speak, does not mean he is not allowed to speak as he was gifted by God to speak. Please describe to me what you are saying?

Shalom

 

[rob]

Look at this. Do you agree with Charlie Kirk they aren’t smart enough and took a white persons job slot? Yes or know please. And do you think Charlie Kirk was a racist, yes or know.

Ok Seeker, I watched the video. It is not something I would talk about. I do not go about talking about people pubic-ally or privately.

What is the context or reason for this talking? Why are you interested in this ?

I was a teacher for 10 years training indigenous primary school teachers to become primary school teachers, so I have experience in what this video is about. When you are trained in education, not everybody is experienced at the same level, and often we graduate at the best experience we are capable of. The factors that cause this difference is because of a general lack of playing with science while as a child growing up. I have seen this first hand while with different cultures of people.

Now what is the reason for Charles Kirk speaking the way he does? These are certain people who got into the Senate, what we call the leaders of the country.

You ask "Arn't they smart enough? What does that mean? How do you define smart?

I once pulled up on a flooded river in the rain, freezing and cold and miserable, and Pastor Oronga, an indigenous local man from Bianings tribe of Great Britian, PNG, said to us, huddle over me like an umbrella, so 7 of us did. He rubbed two sticks together and had a fire going in just 2 minutes, while it was still raining. The little fire and the light in the dark was such a boast of moral. I asked him where did you get the dry tinder from? He said I know where to look under a tree . This man (I assume you would grade as primitive) was highly smart to make a fire in the rain !!! Go figure.

Another story, famous British explorers near Comet, where I live in Queensland Australia, starved to death in the Australian outback desert bush, while Australian Aborigines around watched in wonder. They live on an abundance of food surrounding them, but the poor white culture had not a clue and many of them died.

So in order to measure IQ with incoming grade 7 students (aged 14 to 16) I did 20 questions using objects with simple questions.
(1) How many lollies are in this jar?
(a)100
(b) 10,000
(c) 500

(2) How long is this stick (a ruler was taped to it starting on the number 6 )
(a) 14
(b) 8
(c) 12

And so on. My tests got famous and other authorities wanted to know. I could predict leaving exit grade 10 students and their pass rate, 4 years in advance, based on incoming IQ to begin with. Notice I used questions the culture is familiar with.

SO my friend what are you taking about specifically?
Shalom

 

[rob]

Watch this video "

just 4 minutes in is enough

Kirk says people (black of white) should be treated on the same level. The black lady agrees. But she wanted progressive treatment.
Kirk doesn't agree.

One I failed in a job career as a train driver, I failed 2 tests while got 100% in the engineering tests. The ones I failed is memorizing a page of writing and pattern recognition. I ask, how is this fair? Kirk is saying we should take the best who pass all tests. The black lady is saying we should have progression. This is interesting because what skills does a train driver require?

One I failed to get a job on a seat picking tomatoes because I was not skilled. Skilled at what I say? Choosing the green ones turning red? Another example of bias?

Once in Uni I asked a colleague "do this mean a motor can become a generator depending upon its power factor"? She looked dumb at me, as if I asked a dumb child like question? Another example of progressive experience.

I like slow learners, as I am progressive as a learner myself. But we lacked opportunity because schools select the best of the best.
That is unfair.

Your questions raise different issues and problems. Shalom

 

[seeker]

Ok Seeker, I watched the video. It is not something I would talk about. I do not go about talking about people pubic-ally or privately.

What is the context or reason for this talking? Why are you interested in this ?

I was a teacher for 10 years training indigenous primary school teachers to become primary school teachers, so I have experience in what this video is about. When you are trained in education, not everybody is experienced at the same level, and often we graduate at the best experience we are capable of. The factors that cause this difference is because of a general lack of playing with science while as a child growing up. I have seen this first hand while with different cultures of people.

Now what is the reason for Charles Kirk speaking the way he does? These are certain people who got into the Senate, what we call the leaders of the country.

You ask "Arn't they smart enough? What does that mean? How do you define smart?

I once pulled up on a flooded river in the rain, freezing and cold and miserable, and Pastor Oronga, an indigenous local man from Bianings tribe of Great Britian, PNG, said to us, huddle over me like an umbrella, so 7 of us did. He rubbed two sticks together and had a fire going in just 2 minutes, while it was still raining. The little fire and the light in the dark was such a boast of moral. I asked him where did you get the dry tinder from? He said I know where to look under a tree . This man (I assume you would grade as primitive) was highly smart to make a fire in the rain !!! Go figure.

Another story, famous British explorers near Comet, where I live in Queensland Australia, starved to death in the Australian outback desert bush, while Australian Aborigines around watched in wonder. They live on an abundance of food surrounding them, but the poor white culture had not a clue and many of them died.

So in order to measure IQ with incoming grade 7 students (aged 14 to 16) I did 20 questions using objects with simple questions.
(1) How many lollies are in this jar?
(a)100
(b) 10,000
(c) 500

(2) How long is this stick (a ruler was taped to it starting on the number 6 )
(a) 14
(b) 8
(c) 12

And so on. My tests got famous and other authorities wanted to know. I could predict leaving exit grade 10 students and their pass rate, 4 years in advance, based on incoming IQ to begin with. Notice I used questions the culture is familiar with.

SO my friend what are you taking about specifically?
Shalom

Look! I asked you a simple question…and you go blah, blah, blah. You are wordy. You still did not answer the question I asked you. So I will ask the simple question again. Do you agree with CK, that tney arent smart enough.

 

[seeker]

Greetings Seeker, you have followed me here on Adventist Forum. You can always post on my other forum if you want?
You ask a question, that is really not about me? You read my reply on my other forum.

So it's over to you to make detailed reply? I have no idea what your saying or what you mean?

We are taught in the Scriptures not to judge any man, lest we ourselves by judged. I have listened to many of Charles Kirk videos, and he was quite a debater. But just because he spoke differently to how I would speak, does not mean he is not allowed to speak as he was gifted by God to speak. Please describe to me what you are saying?

Shalom

It’s a simple question, Rob. I’m not judging the man’s eternal abode. His life is a public record. I asked you a simple question. It’s very clear….very obvious CK was a Christian nationalist. He didn’t live the sermon on the mount….he went around in the name of Jesus stepping on people…twisting scripture to benefit his agenda. It’s not a good thing to murder….I don’t like the fact he was assasinated….but there is a public record of his life and the horrible things he said….debating mostly kids. The Bible doesn’t have a place that tells us to love evil. So I ask you again…..does his death redeem the way he lived? All I need is a yes or no, please!

 

[seeker]

Watch this video "

just 4 minutes in is enough

Kirk says people (black of white) should be treated on the same level. The black lady agrees. But she wanted progressive treatment.
Kirk doesn't agree.

One I failed in a job career as a train driver, I failed 2 tests while got 100% in the engineering tests. The ones I failed is memorizing a page of writing and pattern recognition. I ask, how is this fair? Kirk is saying we should take the best who pass all tests. The black lady is saying we should have progression. This is interesting because what skills does a train driver require?

One I failed to get a job on a seat picking tomatoes because I was not skilled. Skilled at what I say? Choosing the green ones turning red? Another example of bias?

Once in Uni I asked a colleague "do this mean a motor can become a generator depending upon its power factor"? She looked dumb at me, as if I asked a dumb child like question? Another example of progressive experience.

I like slow learners, as I am progressive as a learner myself. But we lacked opportunity because schools select the best of the best.
That is unfair.

Your questions raise different issues and problems. Shalom

I asked you to look at this. Then I asked you a question because CK said they aren’t smart enough because they lack brain power. That goes back to slave days when they said slaves couldn’t read because they lacked brain power. CK is using an old play book. He said they aren’t smart and needed DEI hires because they couldn’t make it alone, so they are unqualified and got the jobs and took a white mans position. Please tell me, you get what’s at play here?

 

[seeker]

I would like take this time to honor Charlie Kirk, a Sabbathkeeper. He was a wonderful person who was not afraid to speak his beliefs about religion or politics. He believed Jesus rose from the dead, and he confessed Him with his mouth. He will definitely be saved and it gives me comfort to know that. His life was taken way too early, but we do not know everything God knows. We are told at times God takes away the righteous to spare them the evil to come. We also know that we are not able to search out the knowledge of God. Job never knew why he had he suffer. He had to trust God and will find out why he had to suffer when he gets to heaven. In times like these, we need to trust God. He did not cause this tragedy, but He allowed it. For what reason, we do not know. Like Job, we will have to wait until we get to heaven to find out. For now, let us focus on living for Christ and forsaking all known sin. Let us be ready to meet Jesus Christ when He soon comes.

Charlie Kirk’s views on Jews paint a contradictory picture. The conservative activist, who was killed on Wednesday, was a proponent of Christian nationalism, though he rejected the label, instead calling himself “a Christian and a nationalist.” He regularly criticized Jews and repeatedly trafficked in ideas like the Great Replacement Theory, an old antisemitic canard.

Charlie Kirk kept a ‘Jewish Sabbath.’ What did he mean by that?

Charlie Kirk wrote a book about keeping the ‘Jewish Sabbath’ as part of his Christian life and advocated for the practice.

forward.com

 

[rob]

Look! I asked you a simple question…and you go blah, blah, blah. You are wordy. You still did not answer the question I asked you. So I will ask the simple question again. Do you agree with CK, that tney arent smart enough.

I am not qualified to say. People who work in the Senate have to be smart (I assume). I am not wordy, I tell you my experience, how about you tell me yours on this topic? Shalom

 

[rob]

It’s a simple question, Rob. I’m not judging the man’s eternal abode. His life is a public record. I asked you a simple question. It’s very clear….very obvious CK was a Christian nationalist. He didn’t live the sermon on the mount….he went around in the name of Jesus stepping on people…twisting scripture to benefit his agenda. It’s not a good thing to murder….I don’t like the fact he was assasinated….but there is a public record of his life and the horrible things he said….debating mostly kids. The Bible doesn’t have a place that tells us to love evil. So I ask you again…..does his death redeem the way he lived? All I need is a yes or no, please!

I have listened to many of his videos already and I don't see the clear cut yes and no as you require. Most topics he spoke about are complex and emotional. What do you mean by saying he was a Christian nationalist? What does this mean to you? It means nothing to me, hence why I don't get rattled by such things. Detail me your experiences and why you dislike CK approach so much? Shalom

 

[rob]

I asked you to look at this. Then I asked you a question because CK said they aren’t smart enough because they lack brain power. That goes back to slave days when they said slaves couldn’t read because they lacked brain power. CK is using an old play book. He said they aren’t smart and needed DEI hires because they couldn’t make it alone, so they are unqualified and got the jobs and took a white mans position. Please tell me, you get what’s at play here?

Yes I get what's at play here, but why does it bother you? I have worked side by side with electricians who are PNG and I admire they got such jobs, but not me : alas I did NOT get an apprenticeship. Do they lack brain power? Maybe for some skills, maybe not for others. I used to know WIlliam, a PNG mechanic taught by a White man mechanic before PNG independence in 1975. I would trust WIlliam on my car, he is brilliant, and well taught. This is what the black lady said, experiences come progressively. WIlliam is a good learner, and I find most PNG people are. But they would not pass white biased exams on mechanics. Does that matter? Does it mean anything? Sorry I am wordy again, and you speak brevity. Why does CK style bother you so much?

People are allowed to speak differently aren't they, without being shot for being different to you? Shalom

 

[rob]

It’s a simple question, Rob. I’m not judging the man’s eternal abode. His life is a public record. I asked you a simple question. It’s very clear….very obvious CK was a Christian nationalist. He didn’t live the sermon on the mount….he went around in the name of Jesus stepping on people…twisting scripture to benefit his agenda. It’s not a good thing to murder….I don’t like the fact he was assasinated….but there is a public record of his life and the horrible things he said….debating mostly kids. The Bible doesn’t have a place that tells us to love evil. So I ask you again…..does his death redeem the way he lived? All I need is a yes or no, please!

The Bible tells us to judge people by the fruit they bear? Why was CK popular and well liked? even famous?
He drew crowds, I don't, I am not popular either. He certainly had fruits most of us admire !
I find his spiritual walk with God real enough. He lived up the light he received. You seem to disagree with this?