Does the church understand the TRUE meaning of DEATH, like it USED to?
rob
Active member
The JW website does not explain why Jesus had to die? Why couldn't Jehovah forgive them for sinning?
Why do you doubt the human part of Jesus died, but the divine part did not? JW speak of the "spirit Son"
by this I could call the Most High a "spirit Father" ?
JW website "In this first prophecy of the Bible, Jehovah alluded to his purpose to have his heavenly spirit Son come to earth to live as the perfect man Jesus and then die—be bruised in the heel—in that sinless state.
The JW website has a good answer, why are you asking the SDA assembly? So the JW answer is no different to the SDA answer,
both suggest the human part of Jesus died but the "spirit Son" or the Divinity part did not die.
Shalom
rob
Active member
I already gave you my answer, which is not SDA, but from my own research of EGW.
EGW: "It was the sense of sin, bringing the Father’s wrath upon him as man’s substitute, that made the cup he drank so bitter, and broke the heart of the Son of God. Death is not to be regarded as an angel of mercy. Nature recoils from the thought of dissolution, which is the consequence of sin. {5Red 81.2}
Thus I see Jesus truly suffered the first and second death for sin-offering. I also define death as the separation of powers from Jehovah, causing a dissolution of natural forces that allow us to live. Therefore because Jehovah and His Son were separated, my two pennies is both the humanity died and the "spirit Son" also died, in my words: Divinity died as well, meaning it felt separation of divine powers. Now the reason why the body never decayed, proves the Son is divine, and his own divinity prevented the decaying process. This is why a mere cherub could not become a sacrifice for sin-offering, as cherubim have no divinity in them , unlike the Son has.
Now Muslims mock, if Jesus is God as Jehovah is God, how can Jesus die. I can say YES Jesus did die, God can feel separation, and in this sense, the true meaning of death, felt the dissolution of nature. This is my two pennies and thus there is no reason to laugh, as I am not trying to change you, but because you asked I give you my personal answer. Read and take my two pennies for what they are.
Shalom
rob
Active member
Define death than? Allow the JW to define death.
Where does the atom itself get its power of moving as quantum? My two pennies is from Jehovah.
Where does the biological molecules and the information reading on the DNA come from ? My two pennies is from Jehovah.
How come the finger nails continue living after the brain does not and dies?
Death can only be understood as relationship.
Relationship to what ? My two pennies to Jehovah.
SO if you are truly separated from Jehovah you experience death.
Ps 22:1 speaks of this separation. Hence the "Son" "died" under this proper meaning of death
Prove me wrong if you can, I welcome your input.
Where is this death process spoken of ?
Zec 14:12 And this shall be "a striking" wherewith "Jehovah" will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
Not your normal death process is it, but the dissolution of matter itself, Even the atoms fall from your face.
Shalom
rob
Active member
JW commentary:" Reasonably, then, who invented the idea that a spirit part of man survives the death of the body?
SO glad the JW do not have an immortal soul like other deceived theories of faith.
I read that the JW does not see death as the separation of Jehovah from matter, but "
the life-force gradually ceases to function in body cells. Death is the opposite of life."
isn't the life -force based on a relationship to Jehovah?
Shalom
SO glad the JW do not have an immortal soul like other deceived theories of faith.
I read that the JW does not see death as the separation of Jehovah from matter, but "
the life-force gradually ceases to function in body cells. Death is the opposite of life."
isn't the life -force based on a relationship to Jehovah?
Shalom
rob
Active member
JW commentary: "
Why does Adam and Eve's sin make them imperfect? When they repented why didn't Jehovah just forgive them?
The prophet Isaiah foretold that the promised Messiah’s suffering and death would provide atonement for the sins of humans. (Isaiah 53:5, 10) Jesus clearly understood this, and he willingly gave “his soul a ransom in exchange for many.” (Matthew 20:28) His sacrificial death opened the way for imperfect humans to have a good relationship with Jehovah and to be rescued from sin and death. Jesus’ death opens up to us the opportunity to regain what Adam and Eve lost—the prospect of living forever in perfect conditions on earth.c—Revelation 21:3, 4.Why does Adam and Eve's sin make them imperfect? When they repented why didn't Jehovah just forgive them?
rob
Active member
I told you I am not a cleryman
I used to be a science teacher 10 yrs, an Agricultural teacher 15 years, a Education lecturer 4 years,
a Head of Department of Agriculture 2 years, a computer VSS teacher 5 years, all up over 27 years teaching.
Here is a Bible promise anybody can become wise through Jesus:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.
19 The meek also shall increase their joy in the LORD,
So if you being blind want to see Scripture correctly, Ask and ye shall receive, pressed down flowing over.
rob
Active member
Does the JW teach eternal torment? You picture does not match a picture of a God of love? Ron Wyatt found Sodom as others later have confirmed, with fire brimstone rocks still there to collect. No picture of people alive being tortured. The fires that cause the destruction go out but the consequence is eternal. The Bible definition of death is dissolution of matter from God, ie separation.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east,
This is the THIRD coming of Jesus-Adonay-Adown-YHWH coming to earth. He does not touch the ground in the SECOND coming.
Zec 14:12 And this shall be the "striking" wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
Which verse tells a similar story?
Re 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Funny there are more details in the OT than the NT?
When wicked people surround the city of Jerusalem to take it.... the striking occurs.... also a judgement... and their final end.
Notice the picture of dying here : dissolution as our Prophet explains in English. The atoms fall from their faces ....
Shalom
rob
Active member
rob
Active member
Dancing around it? No
Where does movement come from? Science called quantum - science has no clue
Where does energy come from, especially the particle and wave properties? science has no clue
Why does energy have particle and wave functions? science no clue
Why does quantum see experiments done to it, and the results change? Science no clue
If energy removes itself from the atom, the movement stops and the space inside the atom becomes a space of nothing
How deep do you wish me to go?
When you end a relationship to Jehovah, all things cease to exist. Does that make sense?
The Bible calls this muwth
death
The first death is a sleep because Jehovah is kind, He will wake you up one day to explain why you will cease to exist
The second death is a permanent separation - you cease to exist. Your DNA info is all gone - memories everything !
When you are separated you can still be alive in a sense, but you grieve and cry. You wish you were totally dead
Job felt this.
I would call this a living death - most of us live while dying.
God wants us to live forever.
Your choice. Have faith in God today.