Genuine Faith

[rob]

Discovering genuine faith

Many years ago I watched a Mission Spotlight on manna falling (even today?) in Namba, a SDA village compound in the Southern part of Angola, Africa. This sparked an investigation into what is faith and how faith grows personally in one’s life.

As a result of studying the Scriptures in Hebrew, using scholarly help from Jeff Benner and his ‘Ancient Hebrew Research Center’ website, as well as my personal training under the Holy Spirit, we have come to view faith as a word meaning “support”.

This was confirmed by Ellen White in comments made on the first occurrence of faith in a Bible passage usually poorly translated:-

Ex 17:12 But Moses' hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady "H530" until the going down of the sun. (KJV)

EGW: “Happy the minister who has a faithful Aaron and Hur to strengthen his hands when they become weary, and to hold them up by faith and prayer. Such a support is a powerful aid to the servant of Christ in his work, and will often make the cause of truth to triumph gloriously”. GW92 32.2

I left this personal ‘theory of faith’ of mine with myself for over 10 years. One day I was challenged to confirm this theory as truth and so I asked the Lord for confirmation.

During a video a SDA Pastor challenged me to read the greatest human who has ever written on the subject of faith, the man’s name was A T Jones.

We are taught only to trust our Bibles and Mrs White as sources of inspiration, so imagine my surprise reading A T Jones material for the first time and stumbling across a passage he wrote that is NOT written anywhere by Mrs White writings:-

A.T. Jones: "Anyone who seeks in the word of God for the specific things which God has provided and then bows upon that specific word for that thing, is asking according to the plainly expressed will of God, and knows that his prayer is heard and that he has the thing for which he prayed. So doing, the prayers will be always certain, the life will be filled with the direct gifts of God, and the faith will be sure and strong and will be ever increasing in strength ( www.1888mpm.org/files/Lessons%20on%20Faith-AT%20Jones.pdf )

This is exactly as my ‘theory of faith’ supports, yet it is independent confirmation that another person supports the same view of genuine faith as I do. Yet this was written 136 years ago and I didn’t know this. I have also come to understand only recently, the strange way Mrs White defines “faith” as well.

Mrs White “We need daily to cultivate faith in a present Saviour. Trusting in a power out of and above ourselves, exercising faith in unseen support and power which is waiting the demand of the needy and dependent, we can trust amid clouds as well as sunshine, singing of present deliverance and present enjoyment of His love. The life we now live must be by faith in the Son of God”. {TDG 62.2}

EGW” Just so has God given us the precious promises throughout his word. The Scriptures are open to us as the garden of God, and their promises are as fragrant flowers blooming all over that garden. God especially calls our attention to the very ones that are appropriate for us. In these promises we may discern the character of God, and read his love to us. They are the ground upon which our faith rests, the support and strength of our faith and hope; and through these we are to delight our souls in God, and breathe in the fragrance of heaven. Through the precious promises he withdraws the veil from the future, and gives us glimpses of the things which he has prepared for those who love him. And yet “eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.” {RH October 11, 1887, par. 8}

EGW” Hold fast to the hand of Him who can bless and heal if He sees that it is for your present and eternal good. And now, my brother and sister, while you are both alive, take this precious time to appropriate by faith to yourselves the precious promises of the Word of God. I am thankful that you are both presenting yourselves as humble seekers for the pardon of all sin. This is your privilege. Do not disbelieve. {2SM 255.2}

Mrs White defines the process of
“genuine faith” as “to appropriate by faith to yourselves the precious promises of the Word of God”.

I believe I am personally experiencing this, but I was led to its discovery only after over 10 years when the Lord started me on the journey of experiencing personal faith over the years.

Now imagine my surprise discovering where the Bible passage that speaks of Mrs White’s definition of faith, is the same passage the Lord showed me, and I have preached this theme, for over 40 years !

When I was 17 after reading the fantastic book by Ellen White, ‘Steps to Christ’ I asked the Lord to show me where in the Bible is the same steps to Christ listed in the same chronological order as Mrs White’s ‘Steps to Christ’? Wouldn’t this be a fantastic discovery?

Yet while we have preached this for over 40 years, no Pastor has even been interested in such a Bible passage, and writing off my experiences as pure speculation.

Here is the Bible passage that speaks of how to achieve genuine faith.

Yasha 14:1 ¶
O Israel, return unto the LORD thy God; for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity.
2 Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips.

Steps to Christ : Such a passage speaks of

Chapter 1—God’s Love for Man . . . . . . . . . 6 Yasha 14:1 ¶ O Israel
Chapter 2—The Sinner’s Need of Christ . . 11 return unto the LORD thy God;
Chapter 3—Repentance . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .15 for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity.
Chapter 4—Confession . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . 25 2 Take with you words,
Chapter 5—Consecration . . . . . . . . .. . . . . .29 and turn to the LORD:
Chapter 6—Faith and Acceptance . . . . .. .. 33 say unto him,
Chapter 7—The Test of Discipleship . . . . . . 38 Take away all iniquity,
Chapter 8—Growing Up Into Christ . . . . . .. 44 and receive us graciously:
Chapter 9—The Work and the Life . . . . . . .. 50 so will we render the calves of our lips.

Notice this parallel comment by Ellen White:

EGW: "Take God’s promises as your own, plead them before him as his own words; and you will receive fullness of joy. {RH September 11, 1888, par. 11}

ROB: Notice the simplicity in her words in English.

Take God’s promises as your own, plead them before him as his own words; and you will receive fullness of joy.

Ho 14:2 Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips.

Notice the parallel of her sentence with the verse in Hebrew explaining how “genuine faith” works as a “faith process”.

I can understand the difficulty in using Mrs White messages, to confirm Bible passages, but one cannot take away my passion to understanding the importance of this discovery. Like the Bible says truth is hidden in poetry similes and only those who seek truth will uncover their treasures within.

Many remain ignorant genuine faith, as I have been a SDA for over 25 years, and only have come to learn about genuine faith in the last six months. I will leave further comments for now, and await any discussion. Shalom

 

[Chief]

Yasha 14:1 ¶
O Israel, return unto the LORD thy God; for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity.
2 Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips.

Which book is this? I have never heard of any book in the bible going by this title. Could you please clarify this?

On faith, Hebrews 11:1-3 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good report. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear." My understanding is taking God at his word even though there may not be any evidence to support the action.

On A. T. Jones, I haven't read much about him, except for the encyclopedia page highlighting his contributions to the developments of the church and the later falling out due to the issues highlighted in the article.

 

[rob]

Which book is this? I have never heard of any book in the bible going by this title. Could you please clarify this?

On faith, Hebrews 11:1-3 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good report. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear." My understanding is taking God at his word even though there may not be any evidence to support the action.

On A. T. Jones, I haven't read much about him, except for the encyclopedia page highlighting his contributions to the developments of the church and the later falling out due to the issues highlighted in the article.

In the OT is a scroll called the Scroll of Jesus, our translators have mis-spelt the words over the years to the Book of Hosea
Such a book explains the journey of genuine faith, without using those terms, it uses other more simple words.
Try this link to our forum where the presentation is easier to publish

Discovering genuine faith - a simple presentation | Spiritualsprings

Discovering genuine faith Many years ago I

spiritualsprings.proboards.com

You mention faith is the substance of things hoped for.... yes, but how do you get genuine faith every day from Jesus?

 

[rob]

When you try genuine faith things go wrong | Spiritualsprings

When you begin the process of living by genuine faith, your Opposer ups His game of opposing you and helping you break faith more and more often. This also occurs with you committi

spiritualsprings.proboards.com

Here are some testimonies of my own experiences with genuine faith and also helping others.
To evaluate genuine faith properly you would have to read all the threads, but keep an open mind with these two so far.
Shalom

 

[rob]

Confirmation of understanding Genuine Faith | Spiritualsprings

The confirmation of understanding Genuine Faith, came during July 2024; when we discovered two passages written by A. T. Jones, who was a pioneer SDA supporter of GOD

spiritualsprings.proboards.com

Here is the articles written by A T Jones that I used to confirm my understanding of genuine faith is true.

 

[Chief]

In the OT is a scroll called the Scroll of Jesus, our translators have mis-spelt the words over the years to the Book of Hosea
Such a book explains the journey of genuine faith, without using those terms, it uses other more simple words.

So, you're talking about an extra-biblical source, right?

Try this link to our forum where the presentation is easier to publish

I just realized you copy-pasted the info from the source forum to here. It would have been better to set the premise for attribution. There are duplication penalties for copy-pasting.

You mention faith is the substance of things hoped for.... yes, but how do you get genuine faith every day from Jesus?

Ephesians 2:8 (ESV) For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

 

[rob]

Love talking to you chief

1) The book of Hosea is an OT Bible book, but should be renamed as the Book of Yasha or Yashah depending on how you spell Hebrew words, this is a mute point anyway, so now you know the OT book !

2) The copy and paste from one forum to another forum is not a premise for attribution (whatever that means?), it's my work and I publish the material as I write it. What does "there are duplication penalties for copy-pasting"? mean? Are you saying one cannot publish his own copyright material somewhere else?

In fact we began Spiritual springs .org in 2012 I think and have written over 3000 webpages so far, in the latter rain I have published a further 100 threads from a Spiritual Springs Pro Board Forum, after experiencing genuine faith, and trying to get this message known through my local church Pastor. However it has been a struggle and I have yet to find a way to get the Lord's message out.

3) I like your verse explaining genuine faith as a gift of God, so how do you receive this gift daily from Jesus?

Here is Mrs White defining genuine faith as a process

"to appropriate (by faith) to yourself, the precious promises in the Word of God"

I have never heard of this SOP before, and found it even harder to find what Bible verse this is referring to.

Just like repentance is a gift from God , repentance is also a process .
Just like salvation is a gift from God, salvation is also a process.
And like faith being a gift from God, faith is also a process.

Shalom

 

[Chief]

1) The book of Hosea is an OT Bible book, but should be renamed as the Book of Yasha or Yashah depending on how you spell Hebrew words, this is a mute point anyway, so now you know the OT book !

That's confusing. I prefer using the regular names.

2) The copy and paste from one forum to another forum is not a premise for attribution (whatever that means?), it's my work and I publish the material as I write it. What does "there are duplication penalties for copy-pasting"? mean? Are you saying one cannot publish his own copyright material somewhere else?

In fact we began Spiritual springs .org in 2012 I think and have written over 3000 webpages so far, in the latter rain I have published a further 100 threads from a Spiritual Springs Pro Board Forum, after experiencing genuine faith, and trying to get this message known through my local church Pastor. However it has been a struggle and I have yet to find a way to get the Lord's message out.

Not my rule. Just SEO rules by search engine service providers to discourage piggybacking by penalizing later copies of the earlier publications.

3) I like your verse explaining genuine faith as a gift of God, so how do you receive this gift daily from Jesus?

Romans 10:17 (NKJV): So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[rob]

Nice thoughts chief

De 30:11 ¶ For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.( King James version as it reads plainly)

Genuine faith is all about hearing and doing.

Hearing is also the idea of reading words, because as you read them you hear them. People hear the words because few could read Hebrew themselves, so they listened as the scribes spoke to them, or Moses read to them.

Now what do you do when you HEAR the word? You allow the word to DO in you.

The people were literally seeing the hearing and doing as using human powers alone. They did not see the doing is a divine doing that supports human doing. Sadly they missed the application of poetry pictures, and being of a world literal only saw world literals, not also divine literals.

The "heart" is the key to understanding that this is not a worldly literal but a reference to a divine literal. And so the Hebrew people failed to apply poetry pictures correctly and so missed a vital understanding.

De 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

The rest of the passage uses two similar words "shama" to hear and "shamar" to process.

These words are often translated fuzzy.

How does the heart process the words? so the divine doings process the grape juice inside you?
You ask for this.



Job 15:1 ¶ Then answered Eliphaz the Temanite,

speaks and make much discussion of this process of faith and the complete lack of faith, vanity.

Job 15:5 For thy mouth uttereth thine iniquity "guilt" , and thou choosest the tongue of the crafty "aruwm" "serpent words".
6 Thine own mouth condemneth thee, and not I: yea, thine own lips testify against thee.

Here Eliphaz the Temanite speaks of the mouth choosing what to do with words " speaking words as the serpent does "

or

Job 15:8 Hast thou heard the secret of God "the Father"?

Do we choose the words of the heavenly Father?

Job 15:12 Why doth thine heart carry thee away? and what do thy eyes wink at,
13 That thou turnest thy spirit against God, and lettest such words go out of thy mouth?

Here Eliphaz the Temanite speaks of the mouth choosing human powered words that is nothing to the Lord. Is Job doing this?

Job 15:15 Behold, he putteth no trust "aman" in his saints; yea, the heavens are not clean in his sight.


Here Eliphaz the Temanite speaks of humans lacking faith in the Father's words.

Job 15:30 He shall not depart out of darkness; the flame shall dry up his branches, and by the breath of his mouth shall he go away.
31 Let not him that is deceived trust in vanity: for vanity shall be his recompence.

Notice this is the same way Jesus created, by the "ruwach of His mouth" trusting in His heavenly Father"

The human heart no longer has the "ruwach in his mouth, trusting the words of the FATHER, but instead we have vanity, the complete absence of faith.

Job 15:35 They conceive mischief, and bring forth vanity,

So the heart instead brings forth as a borning process vanity, the word here is "aven" genetic propensities or pet habits of sin.

Job speaks

Job 16:10 They have gaped upon me with their mouth; they have smitten me upon the cheek reproachfully; they have gathered themselves together against me.

Job speaks a prophecy of faith, supporting Jesus is a simile plight with gaping mouths mocking Him

Ps 22:13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

Such verses prove the supporting nature of faith, verses that use other verses as support.

Other friends of Job mock Job as one lacking faith.

But Job replies

Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Notice in the oldest Hebrew we have that Moses knew of and presented to the Hebrew people, the heart can choose words of the Father and do them using faith or human words of vanity, ie a lack of faith, that follows the serpent words and His opposing system using self as a power where humans do what is right in their own eyes, that means nothing to the Lord.

Genuine faith is where the heart HEAR and DO.

Related to this idea is where the heart PROCESS the words that do.

Related to this idea is take takings with you as words, praying them to GOD in your heart, that the words DO as you hope they do and as the Word promises to DO. ( Hosea 14:1-2)

Scripture does not write complicated ideas, the process of genuine faith is easy, that a child may do them.

[Notice I am using Job to explain Deuteronomy, just we use Daniel to explain Revelation. This is also the idea of faith, using verses from one place to support the words in another place. ]

Shalom

 

[rob]

Chief posted "That's confusing. I prefer using the regular names.
Rob replies" Sorry my friend, but the book of Jesus is an outstanding book in the Bible, the only book that explains genuine faith and why Jesus did not explain genuine faith in the NT as He already wrote about it in the OT. He does however make many comments on genuine faith, that translators cover with fuzzy translations. Shalom

 

[rob]

Chief posted "Just SEO rules by search engine service providers to discourage piggybacking by penalizing later copies of the earlier publications.'

So are you saying the "rulers of the Internet" do not want people who own their own copyright, to publish their words a second or third time elsewhere? (saves writing the material all over again?) Are you also saying it is wrong to make hyperlinks to other websites that contain my own earlier published webpages? Are you also saying that one has to write brand new sentences on any forum a person visits? Are these the rules from, these rulers? And do you agree with these rules? Please discuss.

I note forum rules "multiple repetitive messages. Self-promotion links will be removed." What do you mean by this?

Shalom

 

[Chief]

Genuine faith is all about hearing and doing.

This I agree with, as the scripture also aligns; James 2:17-20 (KJV) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Sorry my friend, but the book of Jesus is an outstanding book in the Bible, the only book that explains genuine faith and why Jesus did not explain genuine faith in the NT as He already wrote about it in the OT. He does however make many comments on genuine faith, that translators cover with fuzzy translations.

I use the principle outlined in Isaiah 28:10-13 NKJV For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little.” For with stammering lips and another tongue He will speak to this people, To whom He said, “This is the rest with which You may cause the weary to rest,” And, “This is the refreshing”; Yet they would not hear. But the word of the LORD was to them, “Precept upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little,” That they might go and fall backward, and be broken And snared and caught.

I consult extra biblical sources for premise and context. If everything checks out and is consistent, well and good. If not, I will be hesitant to admit it as a biblical canon.

So are you saying the "rulers of the Internet" do not want people who own their own copyright, to publish their words a second or third time elsewhere? (saves writing the material all over again?) Are you also saying it is wrong to make hyperlinks to other websites that contain my own earlier published webpages? Are you also saying that one has to write brand new sentences on any forum a person visits? Are these the rules from, these rulers? And do you agree with these rules? Please discuss.

I note forum rules "multiple repetitive messages. Self-promotion links will be removed." What do you mean by this?

Unfortunately, I do not control the search engine algorithm and can only comply with the rules set forth. Whether I agree with them or not is immaterial in this context. What I know is that you can repurpose content, paraphrase, condense, expand, reference and modify however you wish. The penalty is there when you copy-paste verbatim/without alteration and attribution.

Repetitive non-substantive submissions will be removed to stop spamming. A human layer is added for this purpose.

 

[rob]

Thanks for your reply chief, you said "and I will shew thee my faith by my works."
Let me give you an example of "my faith working" and you can respond with an example of your faith working.
The message from God to Mrs White explains genuine faith, as
:"to appropriate to yourself, via faith, the precious promises in the Word of God"
And the Bible verse for this same process is found in the Book of Jesus, as the end of His book, He tells us the process of salvation:
"Hosea 14:2 Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him"...
If we combine both sources, (Mrs white leaves out the prayer process)
to appropriate (ie take) to yourself (ie with you), via faith, the precious promises (ie words) in the Word of God, (turn to the Lord: say to Him" Both sources agree with each other !!

So at night I pray to the Lord to be my protector and shield( Ps 3:3 ) grant me shalom peace (Ps 4:8) and call on me at 4:45 am ( Jerimiah 33:3). Notice the Bible verse says to take with you words, or Mrs White says to take precious words from the Bible verses, same idea, and we pray them to Jesus, as a specific need for His powers of divinity. You will notice is if not necessary to quote the entire verse, for the Lord knows your intentions before you ask Him. However it is important you pray "faith promises" with the correct attitudes of humility, meekness and devotion.

So today I received all the divine miracles of His grace, I was kept safe from harm, no bad dreams came at night, I sleep well only waking twice to dribble urine, and the Lord woke me at exactly 4:45am as He promised to do !

This is an example of some miracles of His grace, granted via genuine faith, that came to me today. I have others throughout the day, but this helps to show you examples of our faith working. Shalom

 

[Chief]

And the Bible verse for this same process is found in the Book of Jesus, as the end of His book, He tells us the process of salvation:

Unfortunately, the bible version I use (as many others do) does not have this book in it. I may not speak much to it.

On faith, Hebrews 11:1 KJV - Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
We live by faith and not by sight for no one has seen tomorrow nor does anyone know what the day will bring forth.

 

[rob]

Chief, I am trying to show you genuine faith as the Bible and Mrs White defines this. I even show you many examples of genuine faith in my own private life. But you quibble over is my passion to name the Book of Hosea by it's correct Hebrew name.
What does this matter? I am sorry such passion throws you off.

Your quoting of the verse Hebrew 11:1 is well known to us all. I am a SDA too, since 1981. What is not known to me until recently is Mrs White definition of genuine faith, given in our earlier post. Are you suggesting we live live under God without Him talking to us, blindly obeying His moral law, without any divine powers from Jesus? What purpose do you pose for genuine faith? What is faith's purpose in the Christian walk with Jesus? Please re-read my earlier post. I am sorry to have used the Hosea label incorrectly to you, and I will use the KJV labels instead. Shalom

 

[rob]

Since you quote Hebrew 11:1, I will quote it back to you, BUT adding genuine faith as I am trying to show you

EGW: “To the distressed father, seeking for the tender love and pity of Christ to be exercised in behalf of his afflicted son, Jesus said: “If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.” All things are possible with God, and by faith we may lay hold on His power. But faith is not sight; faith is not feeling; faith is not reality. “Faith is the substance of thingshoped for, the evidence of thingsnot seen.” To abide in faith is to put aside feeling and selfish desires, to walk humbly with the Lord,to appropriate His promises, and apply them to all occasions, believing that God will work out His own plans and purposes in your heart and life by the sanctification of your character; it is to rely entirely, to trust implicitly, upon the faithfulness of God. If this course is followed, others will see the special fruits of the Spirit manifested in the life and character. {FE 341.3}

Notice EGW quotes your verse BUT adds "to appropriate His promises" etc
She is talking about genuine faith as a process.

 

[Chief]

Hold fast to the hand of Him who can bless and heal if He sees that it is for your present and eternal good. And now, my brother and sister, while you are both alive, take this precious time to appropriate by faith to yourselves the precious promises of the Word of God. I am thankful that you are both presenting yourselves as humble seekers for the pardon of all sin. This is your privilege. Do not disbelieve. {2SM 255.2}

I read the entire page 255 and I will paste it below. The letter from which this message is lifted is linked at the end of the excerpt.

We can sympathize with you, although at a distance from you. I would say, Do not give up hope, but cling to the promise, “Ask, and it shall be given you” (Luke 11:9). Yet do not feel discouraged if He who can do the work of healing, He who knows the end from the beginning, permits His child to die, to rise in the morning of the resurrection. Say, “Not my will, but Thine, O God, be done.”... If your wife falls under the affliction, remember that there is a future life. The last trump will call forth all who have received Christ, believed in Him, and trusted in Him for salvation.

My dear sister, we will pray for you. You have our sympathy. We shall present your case to the Great Physician. I understand that this has already been done. Hold fast to the hand of Him who can bless and heal if He sees that it is for your present and eternal good. And now, my brother and sister, while you are both alive, take this precious time to appropriate by faith to yourselves the precious promises of the Word of God. I am thankful that you are both presenting yourselves as humble seekers for the pardon of all sin. This is your privilege. Do not disbelieve.

Our precious Saviour has given His life for the sins of the world, and has pledged His word that He will save all who come to Him. “God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life” (John 3:16). These are the conditions of gaining eternal life. Comply with them, and your hope is secured, whether you live or die. Trust in the soul-saving Redeemer. Cast your helpless soul upon Him, and He will accept and bless and save you. Only believe. Receive Him with all your heart, and know that He wants you to win the crown of life. Let this be your greatest and most earnest request. Make an entire surrender, and He will cleanse you from every pollution, and make you vessels unto honor. You may be washed and made white in the blood of the Lamb. Thus you gain the victory.…In faith hold fast.—Letter 45, 1905.

Your quoting of the verse Hebrew 11:1 is well known to us all. I am a SDA too, since 1981. What is not known to me until recently is Mrs White definition of genuine faith, given in our earlier post. Are you suggesting we live live under God without Him talking to us, blindly obeying His moral law, without any divine powers from Jesus? What purpose do you pose for genuine faith? What is faith's purpose in the Christian walk with Jesus? Please re-read my earlier post. I am sorry to have used the Hosea label incorrectly to you, and I will use the KJV labels instead. Shalom

Having read the entire context of SM 255, I do not see any contention here because faith involves taking God at His word. Abraham took God at His word that he will become a great nation, even at the threat of the death of his promised son. He did not see the lamb and correctly responded that God will provide Himself a lamb for the sacrifice when Isaac inquired this of him. Hannah took God at His word when Eli told her that God will grant her the desires of her heart when she went to pray at the temple. She went home, stopped being sad and was blessed with a son, Samuel, whom she presented back to God.

I was orphaned at a very young age. Looking at my background, I should not have gone to school. I should have even died, and my father's lineage swept out given the odds that were stacked against us. I have a degree today and obviously; I am still alive. We took God at His word that He is the husband to the widow and father to the fatherless. If that does not demonstrate faith, I don't know what is.

 

[rob]

Everything you have written Chief, I can agree too, I would say you seem be experiencing genuine faith. My favorite verse for those of us who dabble in this faith process without knowing it fully is the "lord plucks us our of the fires like a firebrand"

You say "faith involves taking God at His word" this is correct.

You say "correctly responded that God will provide Himself a lamb" this shows Abraham was supporting God using His faith.

Your other example is also correct. I get a little of your circumstances, thanks.

You did not respond to my own personal examples of demonstrating genuine faith in God? I can only assume you find this strange.

You say "Having read the entire context of SM 255, I do not see any contention here" There is always room to doubt. If I show you a bigger study of mine, I doubt you will study this. Do you have a passion to learn further, or do not already think you have enough faith correctly happening in your life?


EGW: "Faith a Necessity—When I was visiting the Paradise Valley Sanitarium about three years ago, I spoke nearly every morning at five o’clock to the workers, and at a later hour to the patients. There was among the patients one man who seemed always to be depressed. I learned that he believed the theory of the Bible doctrines but could not exercise the faith he needed to appropriate to himself the promises of God. {2MCP 493.2}


Morning after morning I spoke to the patients about faith and urged them to believe the words of God. Yet this poor man seemed unable to admit that he had faith. I talked with him alone. I presented the truth to him in every way possible, then I asked him if he could not believe that Christ was his individual Saviour and would help him. Our Saviour has said to all who are weary and heavy laden, “Take My yoke upon you.” Do not wear a yoke of your own framing. “Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls” (Matthew 11:28, 29). {2MCP 493.3}


Finally the time came when I must leave. I said to him, “Now, my friend, can you tell me that you have learned to trust that Saviour who has taken so much pains to meet the situation of every soul? Can you and will you trust in Him? Can you tell me, before I leave, that you have received faith to believe God?” {2MCP 493.4}


He looked up and said, “Yes, I believe. I have faith.” {2MCP 493.5}


“Thank the Lord,” I replied. I felt that although there were others who had been present and had listened to my talks in the parlor, I had in this case been amply rewarded for all my efforts.—Manuscript 41, 1908. {2MCP 493.6



ROB: Did the man truly understand the process of genuine faith as Mrs White explained it to him?

Do we say the precious promises to Jesus in prayer waiting in hope for that specific divine power to flow into us because we asked for it? That is the essence of genuine faith. It is not enough to know Jesus like knowledge, you have to ask and it shall be given, pressed down and overflowing in your life. Do you understand what I am saying?

When I type these message to you, I ask a faith promise "Lord let me type your words, not mine. Amen"
I am asking for the divine messages to reach you,
and this is a daily thing I do.

Shalom

 

[Chief]

You did not respond to my own personal examples of demonstrating genuine faith in God? I can only assume you find this strange.

Matters of faith require discernment (with the bible as the standard of reference) and personal conviction. When someone tells you their testimony, that is their experience, and it would be rushed to dismiss it. The only thing we are advised to do in this case is to test all things and reject if there are inconsistencies with the scriptures (1 John 4:1 and 1 Thess. 5:20-21).

But also, faith of one person can yield fruit on behalf of another person (many accounts: the paralytic who was lowered through the roof, the centurion's servant, the slave girl in Naaman's house, etc.). Whichever the case, the consistency of the authority of God's word must take precedence because that's the only way we can prove faithfulness to the word of God (Isaiah 8:20), otherwise, we'll be placating ourselves with untruths (Jeremiah 23:24).

 

[rob]

Chief can I ask you to read about a great faith sermon a colleague of mine preached today and my humble opinion to add to the sermon, please read especially the 16 messages from Mrs White, some you have seen already, and my experiences in following Her light, as the Lord has taught her and revealed to me. If there are any inconsistencies with the scriptures, I would kindly ask you to let me know as I do not want to miss out on my own eternal life. I am asking you to help me, read the material for yourself. I eagerly await your response.

Best comphrensive sermon on victory by faith | Spiritualsprings

On Mat 24 , 2025 I heard the best comprehensive sermon on victory by faith My diaries notes are poor, so let me recount the sermon for readers: Mal 3:6

spiritualsprings.proboards.com

Shalom