How does an Adventist get around Jesus statement?
rob
Member
So at last I get a label about you?
I have talked to JW's before.... is this part of your compulsory hours of witnessing?
DO you have to earn your salvation from Jehovah?
Or is salvation free?
Where did I cut off Jesus words?
Shalom
rob
Member
The biggest problem with JW is they NEVER stick to one idea at a time, when cornered they switch to a different topic.
So this means your theology cannot withstand scrutiny.
I have proved this so many times over my 40 years dealing with JW experiences.
You are no different already, you present dozens of topics already.
Try answering this question
Ge 19:24 ¶ Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
1) Why are there TWO YHWH in this verse? Does Jehovah have the ability to make omnipresence in two Beings at the same time as two shapes : one in heaven and one on earth at the same time? This would confuse us no end if this was true?
2) Why does Jehovah ask Abram to offer a SON, his beloved one and only SON as an offering?
3) Why does a being have to die for sins, why can't Jehovah just forgive?
4) If Jehovah has no literal Son, why is He even asking for a sacrifice?
5) How does Jehovah show love when love is a group idea, and Jehovah is all alone?
6) So your Jehovah cannot love - the Bible never speaks of loving yourself. Only fuzzy translations do.
7) Why are you a mad JW? What makes you upset?
Please answer my questions.
So this means your theology cannot withstand scrutiny.
I have proved this so many times over my 40 years dealing with JW experiences.
You are no different already, you present dozens of topics already.
Try answering this question
Ge 19:24 ¶ Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
1) Why are there TWO YHWH in this verse? Does Jehovah have the ability to make omnipresence in two Beings at the same time as two shapes : one in heaven and one on earth at the same time? This would confuse us no end if this was true?
2) Why does Jehovah ask Abram to offer a SON, his beloved one and only SON as an offering?
3) Why does a being have to die for sins, why can't Jehovah just forgive?
4) If Jehovah has no literal Son, why is He even asking for a sacrifice?
5) How does Jehovah show love when love is a group idea, and Jehovah is all alone?
6) So your Jehovah cannot love - the Bible never speaks of loving yourself. Only fuzzy translations do.
7) Why are you a mad JW? What makes you upset?
Please answer my questions.
rob
Member
What to read how your JW religion hows up?
I have a topic they comment on
What does Jehovah ask for a being to die for sin-offerings?
Jehovah Witnesses claim (Quote)
So JW do have a literal Son and a literal Father for billions of years before creation. Wow !
So that should make elohiym a group? But for you it doesn't
Show prophecies of Jesus fulfilled in the OT one is Ps 110:1 That Jesus is at the right hand of Jehovah
But you say quit using Hebrew?
Why? because it shows us JW as a fuzzy religion.
Ps 110:1 The LORD <Y@hovah> said <n@'um> unto my Lord <'adown>, Sit <yashab> thou at my right hand <yamiyn>,
So Jesus is just Adown, a Master, a lesser god, as some JW define.
Let's test this idea:
Ex 34:23 Thrice <pa`am> <shalowsh> in the year <shaneh (in pl. only),> shall all your men children <zakuwr> appear <ra'ah> before <paniym> the Lord <'adown> GOD <Y@hovah>, the God <'elohiym> of Israel <Yisra'el>.
Why is Jehovah called Adown, a Master?
Or why is Adown of the right hand of Jehovah called Adown Jehovah here?
The JW logic is all wrong. I do not see a greater god and a lesser god here.
In just one verse already the JW logic is wrong - know wonder you want me to quit talking in Hebrew.
Can you answer my question? Or are you going to laugh?
Shalom
I have a topic they comment on
What does Jehovah ask for a being to die for sin-offerings?
Jehovah Witnesses claim (Quote)
- "Jehovah and his firstborn Son enjoyed close association for billions of years? - long before the starry heavens and the earth were created."(endquote).
So JW do have a literal Son and a literal Father for billions of years before creation. Wow !
So that should make elohiym a group? But for you it doesn't
Show prophecies of Jesus fulfilled in the OT one is Ps 110:1 That Jesus is at the right hand of Jehovah
But you say quit using Hebrew?
Why? because it shows us JW as a fuzzy religion.
Ps 110:1 The LORD <Y@hovah> said <n@'um> unto my Lord <'adown>, Sit <yashab> thou at my right hand <yamiyn>,
So Jesus is just Adown, a Master, a lesser god, as some JW define.
Let's test this idea:
Ex 34:23 Thrice <pa`am> <shalowsh> in the year <shaneh (in pl. only),> shall all your men children <zakuwr> appear <ra'ah> before <paniym> the Lord <'adown> GOD <Y@hovah>, the God <'elohiym> of Israel <Yisra'el>.
Why is Jehovah called Adown, a Master?
Or why is Adown of the right hand of Jehovah called Adown Jehovah here?
The JW logic is all wrong. I do not see a greater god and a lesser god here.
In just one verse already the JW logic is wrong - know wonder you want me to quit talking in Hebrew.
Can you answer my question? Or are you going to laugh?
Shalom
theMadJW
Member
There you go speaking Hebrew again.
And, by doing so, you think I'm hanging from every word.
There is ONE God, and His son, LIKE Him...
Rev 11:15- And the seventh angel sounded; and there followed great voices in heaven, and they said,
The kingdom of the world is become the kingdom of our Lord [Jehovah], and of his Christ: and he shall reign for
ever and ever.
And, by doing so, you think I'm hanging from every word.
There is ONE God, and His son, LIKE Him...
Rev 11:15- And the seventh angel sounded; and there followed great voices in heaven, and they said,
The kingdom of the world is become the kingdom of our Lord [Jehovah], and of his Christ: and he shall reign for
ever and ever.
rob
Member
The reason why the JW do not like speaking Hebrew is because your theology fails every time.
Whereas my SDA faith does not fail, and is confirmed.
I am not judging you, I like you even in your JW view, I just want you to defend your faith using Moses verses
which by the way were written in Hebrew, and old ancient Hebrew too.
The JW say Jesus fulfill Ps 110:1
Ps 110:1 The LORD <Y@hovah> said unto my Lord <'adown>,
So that makes the Father Jehovah and the Jesus Adown. Both of these are well known Hebrew words.
287 verses use Adown
Ex 23:17 Three times in the year all thy males shall appear before the Lord GOD. <'adown> <Y@hovah> ,
Now your JW theory makes no sense. Here is a verse equating <'adown> to <Y@hovah>
Makes sense in my experience, but not yours.
Such a reply is too difficult for you so you laugh.
Shalom
rob
Member
Can't you write sentences? So you expect me to write a single sentence like you?
rob
Member
NO I am kind, I do not bring accusations, I just want your experiences with your Bible?
Are you willing to share without mocking? Can you supply Moses verses?
No Hebrew?
OK, show me a link to the use of your exclusive JW Bible and I will / we will quote only from it? OK?
Let's see if the JW scholar can still make sense?
rob
Member
Now I can see why you ask this... your JW Bible is not good at all
Exodus 23: 17 Three times a year all your men* are to appear before the true Lord, Jehovah (JW Bible)
From the https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/nwt/books/exodus/23/
110 Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand+Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”+
Why does the JW Bible translate the word Lord as not quite the same?
Why the use of “true Lord” in Exodus 23:17
(not present in the Hebrew)
I pity you my friend in using a JW translation of the Hebrew. Your Bible is so full of errors.
And I spent a few minutes with it already.
Can you answer the question? I can
JW speak of YHWH as the true Lord and Jesus as a lesser Lord.
Such an idea is pure fiction . Sorry.
No wonder you do NOT want "no Hebrew"
rob
Member
JW Bible "26 Then God said: “Let usx make man in our image,y according to our likeness,z
x Pr 8:30;
Proverbs 8:30
JW Bible: " 30 Then I was beside him as a master worker. I was the one he was especially fond of day by day;I rejoiced before him all the time;
Why does the JW call "wisdom" a master worker, when the same word is termed the active force of Jehovah?
JW Bible"
Gen 1:2 and God’s active force*c was moving about over the surface of the waters.d
If Jehovah has an active force, it is hardly a master worker beside him as "us"
Again the JW logic is wrong and the Bible verse interpretation wrong.
My idea of a Divine Family Power is better
And this is NOT SDA theology, not Catholic theology and as far as I can tell not known by main religions that well.
Now did you want Moses verses proof of this theory of mine?
JW Bible: "
Job33: 4 God’s own spirit made me,bAnd the Almighty’s own breath brought me to life.c
What would happen if the Almighty is translated fuzzy and the Shadday is correct.
Why does the JW Bible translate elohiym as God, YHWH as Jehovah, and Eloah as God
And Shadday as Almighty?
SO they have only two terms "God as Jehovah who is Almighty"
and the Lord " a lesser Lord as Jesus Christ" unlike the true Lord , an expression of Jehovah
x Pr 8:30;
Proverbs 8:30
JW Bible: " 30 Then I was beside him as a master worker. I was the one he was especially fond of day by day;I rejoiced before him all the time;
Why does the JW call "wisdom" a master worker, when the same word is termed the active force of Jehovah?
JW Bible"
Gen 1:2 and God’s active force*c was moving about over the surface of the waters.d
If Jehovah has an active force, it is hardly a master worker beside him as "us"
Again the JW logic is wrong and the Bible verse interpretation wrong.
My idea of a Divine Family Power is better
And this is NOT SDA theology, not Catholic theology and as far as I can tell not known by main religions that well.
Now did you want Moses verses proof of this theory of mine?
JW Bible: "
Job33: 4 God’s own spirit made me,bAnd the Almighty’s own breath brought me to life.c
What would happen if the Almighty is translated fuzzy and the Shadday is correct.
Why does the JW Bible translate elohiym as God, YHWH as Jehovah, and Eloah as God
And Shadday as Almighty?
SO they have only two terms "God as Jehovah who is Almighty"
and the Lord " a lesser Lord as Jesus Christ" unlike the true Lord , an expression of Jehovah
rob
Member
JW I quote"
In the Hebrew Scriptures, the combination “Jehovah their God” occurs over 30 times, whereas the expression “the Lord their God” is never used
End quote: "
Ex 10:7 And Pharaoh's servants said unto him, How long shall this man be a snare unto us? let the men go, that they may serve the LORD their God: knowest thou not yet that Egypt is destroyed?
Ex 29:46 And they shall know that I am the LORD their God, that brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, that I may dwell among them: I am the LORD their God.
Such a phrase is used 36 times, so the JW can't even get their sentences and ideas correct !!
Shalom
In the Hebrew Scriptures, the combination “Jehovah their God” occurs over 30 times, whereas the expression “the Lord their God” is never used
End quote: "
Ex 10:7 And Pharaoh's servants said unto him, How long shall this man be a snare unto us? let the men go, that they may serve the LORD their God: knowest thou not yet that Egypt is destroyed?
Ex 29:46 And they shall know that I am the LORD their God, that brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, that I may dwell among them: I am the LORD their God.
Such a phrase is used 36 times, so the JW can't even get their sentences and ideas correct !!
Shalom
rob
Member
JW commentary " I quote"
to whom every family . . . owes its name: The Greek word for “family” (pa·tri·aʹ), derived from the word for “father” (pa·terʹ), occurs only three times in theChristian Greek Scriptures. (Lu 2:4; Ac 3:25) It is broad in meaning and is not limited to a person’s immediate family. It is used several times in theSeptuagint to translate a Hebrew term that in addition to referring to a household also means, by extension, a tribe, people, or nation. (Nu 1:4; 1Ch 16:28; Ps 22:27 [21:28 (27),LXX]) By saying that every family “owes its name” to God, Paul shows that all people, Jews and non-Jews alike, have their origin with Jehovah God, the Father.
End quote
SO if the humans have lineage back to Jehovah.... nice idea....correct
Question: Does God have a family also showing us that lineage?
The JW does not consider this idea.
The JW has a Father and a Son.
That is far as they go.
to whom every family . . . owes its name: The Greek word for “family” (pa·tri·aʹ), derived from the word for “father” (pa·terʹ), occurs only three times in theChristian Greek Scriptures. (Lu 2:4; Ac 3:25) It is broad in meaning and is not limited to a person’s immediate family. It is used several times in theSeptuagint to translate a Hebrew term that in addition to referring to a household also means, by extension, a tribe, people, or nation. (Nu 1:4; 1Ch 16:28; Ps 22:27 [21:28 (27),LXX]) By saying that every family “owes its name” to God, Paul shows that all people, Jews and non-Jews alike, have their origin with Jehovah God, the Father.
End quote
SO if the humans have lineage back to Jehovah.... nice idea....correct
Question: Does God have a family also showing us that lineage?
The JW does not consider this idea.
The JW has a Father and a Son.
That is far as they go.
rob
Member
As a JW and me asking a JW, you do not answer my questions do you?
The JW Bible as a translation is footnoted very well, but the translations are poor and designed to deceive.
But you will not defend your JW Bible, you laugh instead. I suppose you are not scholarly enough,
or perhaps one cannot defend a translation that is full of errors.
Let me ask you the JW a JW question:
Why does the JW say Jesus was created billions of years ago by the Father, thus making a Son.
I assume this was done before angels were created.
If the Son is merely created He cannot be a "spirit Son" as Jehovah Witnesses claim.
Because my two pennies something created is made from matter.
A spirit entity is NOT from matter.
What is your understanding of a "spirit Son" the term JW use?
The JW Bible as a translation is footnoted very well, but the translations are poor and designed to deceive.
But you will not defend your JW Bible, you laugh instead. I suppose you are not scholarly enough,
or perhaps one cannot defend a translation that is full of errors.
Let me ask you the JW a JW question:
Why does the JW say Jesus was created billions of years ago by the Father, thus making a Son.
I assume this was done before angels were created.
If the Son is merely created He cannot be a "spirit Son" as Jehovah Witnesses claim.
Because my two pennies something created is made from matter.
A spirit entity is NOT from matter.
What is your understanding of a "spirit Son" the term JW use?