Is there more to learn about God?

[crystalrainfall]

Do you ever feel like you have learned everything there is to know about the church, and you hunger to learn more about God and the Bible? In the Adventist churches, we are not allowed to ask questions, unless the answer is one of the 28 beliefs. Like what about the prophecies in the Old Testament that Adventists do not clearly understand? Learning more is not acceptable, because every question must be framed within the agreed upon belief set. If a person goes a little beyond what we believe, they backstep and explain it with acceptable Adventist answer. It seems that something is missing. Every Sabbath school lesson rehashes the same beliefs that I have understood for years and years, and nothing is new. God must be bigger, closer, there must be more of the Holy Spirit than a small church in which I don't feel loved or understood. I heard a sermon last week about how the Bible is not one of love, but of rebuke, reproof, exhortation. It left me feeling that God did not love us, until he explained that he meant God wants to warn us to shield us from not being ready when He comes. I think what I am missing is the feeling of being close to God, especially in the church. I do not feel that the people in the church care about me, or that I am important to them. I try to reconnect with old friends from Adventist college, and none of them seem very interested in remaining friends anymore. Do you ever feel like there is more for us to grasp than our set beliefs which are never changing?

 

[Chief]

To be honest with you, I have never been in a situation where learning about any biblical concept was unacceptable, neither have I ever been denied an opportunity to ask or investigate an issue. If what you're describing here happens in your congregation, that's concerning.

Like what about the prophecies in the Old Testament that Adventists do not clearly understand?

Like which one in particular?

If a person goes a little beyond what we believe, they backstep and explain it with acceptable Adventist answer.

When you say 'goes beyond what we believe', does it mean the belief is still consistent with the bible or this person has introduced their own thoughts and ideas?

Every Sabbath school lesson rehashes the same beliefs that I have understood for years and years, and nothing is new.

I have heard concerns over the same. Knowing that God does not change slows me down from making quick judgment on certain issues. Methods of doing things change but the principle remains unchanged.

Is there any new belief that has been stifled? In such a case, I want to believe there is a procedure for doing things if we really mean well and would genuinely want to see spiritual growth in our midst. Have you shared the issues you feel need to be addressed?

God must be bigger, closer, there must be more of the Holy Spirit than a small church in which I don't feel loved or understood. I heard a sermon last week about how the Bible is not one of love, but of rebuke, reproof, exhortation. It left me feeling that God did not love us, until he explained that he meant God wants to warn us to shield us from not being ready when He comes. I think what I am missing is the feeling of being close to God, especially in the church. I do not feel that the people in the church care about me, or that I am important to them.

Someone once told me that the day we understand everything about God, that will be the end of eternity because there will be nothing more to learn. I do agree, God is infinite. God is love and is seeking to have a loving relationship with each one of us (this is what I learnt from the book Song of Solomon). God also says, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent" (Revelation 3:19).

I want to believe the people care about you (simple things like noticing when you are not around should tell you that). However, you should also try to reach out and cultivate your relationships with other people. Remember this verse, "And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." (Luke 2:52). You will also find favour and good reputation with both God and people (Proverbs 3:4). Work on it. God will be with you.

 

[rob]

Yes my friend, I feel for you. You never get SDA emailing me, not even a Pastor.
The longest emails I got was 3 from a Pastor from my local church.

When I battled with a Gnostic Christian over many things, we posted together taking many hours, over 4,000 posts each over a period of 4 years ! How is that commitment and witnessing. I loved his friendship and dedication, though he eventually told me to leave as the Lord made my witness stronger and stronger as time progressed. I learned Scripture that I never knew existed.

So if you want to discuss things daily, not wait days for a reply, make daily replies here and we will discuss things.

I will pick something new to learn

See https://spiritualsprings.proboards.com/thread/69/bible-study-heart

The heart in Hebrew comes in two words "LB" the flesh one and "LBB" the heart in relationship to God
Such word meanings are lost in the NT sadly.

This has profound impact on our understanding of genuine faith, surrender and how salvation works as a process.
Shalom

 

[crystalrainfall]

To be honest with you, I have never been in a situation where learning about any biblical concept was unacceptable, neither have I ever been denied an opportunity to ask or investigate an issue. If what you're describing here happens in your congregation, that's concerning.

Like which one in particular?

When you say 'goes beyond what we believe', does it mean the belief is still consistent with the bible or this person has introduced their own thoughts and ideas?

I have heard concerns over the same. Knowing that God does not change slows me down from making quick judgment on certain issues. Methods of doing things change but the principle remains unchanged.

Is there any new belief that has been stifled? In such a case, I want to believe there is a procedure for doing things if we really mean well and would genuinely want to see spiritual growth in our midst. Have you shared the issues you feel need to be addressed?

Someone once told me that the day we understand everything about God, that will be the end of eternity because there will be nothing more to learn. I do agree, God is infinite. God is love and is seeking to have a loving relationship with each one of us (this is what I learnt from the book Song of Solomon). God also says, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent" (Revelation 3:19).

I want to believe the people care about you (simple things like noticing when you are not around should tell you that). However, you should also try to reach out and cultivate your relationships with other people. Remember this verse, "And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." (Luke 2:52). You will also find favour and good reputation with both God and people (Proverbs 3:4). Work on it. God will be with

To be honest with you, I have never been in a situation where learning about any biblical concept was unacceptable, neither have I ever been denied an opportunity to ask or investigate an issue. If what you're describing here happens in your congregation, that's concerning.

Like which one in particular?

When you say 'goes beyond what we believe', does it mean the belief is still consistent with the bible or this person has introduced their own thoughts and ideas?

I have heard concerns over the same. Knowing that God does not change slows me down from making quick judgment on certain issues. Methods of doing things change but the principle remains unchanged.

Is there any new belief that has been stifled? In such a case, I want to believe there is a procedure for doing things if we really mean well and would genuinely want to see spiritual growth in our midst. Have you shared the issues you feel need to be addressed?

Someone once told me that the day we understand everything about God, that will be the end of eternity because there will be nothing more to learn. I do agree, God is infinite. God is love and is seeking to have a loving relationship with each one of us (this is what I learnt from the book Song of Solomon). God also says, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent" (Revelation 3:19).

I want to believe the people care about you (simple things like noticing when you are not around should tell you that). However, you should also try to reach out and cultivate your relationships with other people. Remember this verse, "And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." (Luke 2:52). You will also find favour and good reputation with both God and people (Proverbs 3:4). Work on it. God will be with you.

Thank you for your kind and thoughtful reply. You asked which prophecies in the Old Testament I was referring to. Here is one: "For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; the city shall be taken, the houses rifled, and the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, but the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle. And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west, making a very large valley; half of the mountain shall move toward the north and half of it toward the south. Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, for the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. You, you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah." (Zechariah 14.2-5). I know Ellen White references this verse, and says it refers to the final judgment upon the wicked. However, there is no mention of half of Jerusalem being taken, and God's people fleeing through the crack in the Mount of Olives. "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. And the land shall mourn, every family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan...." (Zechariah 12:10-14). Adventist teaching never includes grace being poured upon Israel, with them mourning over their piercing of the Messiah. Another is the third temple of Ezekiel in Ezekiel 44-48, the city which will be called, "THE LORD IS THERE" (Ezekiel 48.35). Zechariah 14.18 pronounces a curse on the people who are saved if they do not go up every year to worship the Feast of Tabernacles. Isaiah 66.23 reads "And it shall come to pass that from one New Moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, all flesh shall come to worship before Me" and Adventist teaching does not ever command to keep the New Moon. In fact, the very next verse is unexplanable. Another thing is what do the sacrifices of the Pentateuch symbolize, since they are now spiritually understand? What is the symbolism of the two bulls? The one ram? There are many more sacrifices and we do not have any idea what they mean. I will tell you what I have discovered. The burnt offering symbolized total consecration to the LORD. The ram is offered for the sin of the leadership, the priest, or the whole congregation. I am working on trying to figure out what all of the other sacrifices mean symbolically for us today. I believe in the Adventist teaching, but I think we need to push further to try to figure out the meanings of all of the Old Testament Scripture, not only one verse here or one verse there. We need to understand it ALL.

 

[rob]

I am not sure we can understand all things in Scripture my friend, we are to spend all our time processing truth, and this is an attitude of gratitude.

The verse you quote refers to the THIRD coming of Jesus to earth, and this is important, at it says Jesus touches the earth with His feet, something the Second Coming of Jesus to earth, does NOT do. (Zechariah 14.2-5).

Most SDA do not know there are three and only three comings of Jesus to the earth in the Bible.

I am still waiting for Chief and others to reply to deeper levels of understanding genuine faith. While I suppose you can be saved on the level of relationship you now have in Jesus, he has been training me to understanding new experiences of genuine faith.

Only this week I have come to understand from the Lord what surrender is, It is the opposite to forget.
Here is the Bible verse for this principle: Ho 13:6 According to their pasture, so were they filled; they were filled, and their heart was exalted; therefore have they forgotten me.

I love Pastor Skeete as a preacher. I did a 4 hour study of his 30 minute video and found many new experiences in his sermon entitled surrender. https://spiritualsprings.proboards.com/thread/116/surrender-god-sermon-pastor-skeete

As you say there is always more to learn, and better relationships to make with Jesus. Amen

 

[crystalrainfall]

Thank you for attempting to answer one of my questions. Did not notice the lesson for yesterday in the Sabbath school quarterly? It was saying that our nearest kinsman was the devil. What?? I had never heard that before, and I don't believe it. The devil is not considered our family member in Scripture, but rather the devil is called our enemy. (Matthew 13.28).

 

[rob]

Your welcome. Here is what our Hebrew English translator says about the Hebrew word "kinsman"

Of Christ’s relation to His people, there is a beautiful illustration in the laws given to Israel. When through poverty a Hebrew had been forced to part with his patrimony, and to sell himself as a bondservant, the duty of redeeming him and his inheritance fell to the one who was nearest of kin. See Leviticus 25:25, 47-49; Ruth 2:20. So the work of redeeming us and our inheritance, lost through sin, fell upon Him who is “near of kin” unto us. It was to redeem us that He became our kinsman. Closer than father, mother, brother, friend, or lover is the Lord our Saviour. “Fear not,” He says, “for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art Mine.” “Since thou wast precious in My sight, thou hast been honorable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.” Isaiah 43:1, 4. {DA 327.3}

The word kinsman is a very special word, and Jesus is our nearest kinsman, who rescued the human race from the power of the Devil.

I would trust Mrs White more than the lesson.

Shalom

 

[crystalrainfall]

I appreciate your reply. You are right, Ellen White never said the devil was our redeemer. She only uplifted Jesus Christ as our Redeemer. I deleted my online Sabbath school quarterly after reading the lesson, it does not feel safe to read it anymore. But I do appreciate what you said because our prophet clearly understood the subject better than what was printed in our quarterly.

 

[rob]

Yes my friend, I haven't read the quarterly lesson for over 10 years now. I used to be a loyal reader of the lesson, even being a Sabbath School teacher, for over 20 years. I had over 60 booklets in my library and I studied them intently. In those days Mrs White was on every lesson study day, now she is barely on Friday. Things have changed. It is really studying NON-essential questions. A waste of time really.

The essential question is how to be saved and what is genuine faith. Did you know you can be baptized into our church without a common understanding of faith? It is not one of our creeds, but the other 28 non-essential questions are? How is that ?

Practical examples of Genuine Faith | Spiritualsprings

How Mrs White defines Genuine Faith EGW” Hold fast to the hand of Him who can bless and heal if He sees that it is for your present and eternal good. And no

spiritualsprings.proboards.com

I give you our taste the Lord and see link. You can study other links as required on our forum.

When I attend Sabbath School, it does not mean I have nothing to contribute....I find the average SDA person does not read Hebrew or understand Bible words in the Scriptures. I study my Bible words for several hours every morning because I love my Lord Jesus and love to be trained by Him. Also Bible study is about learning to increase genuine faith.

Lesson 11 June 13 SS study I quote"

Christians have long understood Boaz to be a type of Christ, who is
not only our Creator but chose to become our kinsman—a real, flesh-
and-blood human being, one of the reasons why, again and again, He
called Himself “the Son of man” (Matt. 12:8, Mark 8:31, Luke 22:22,
John 3:14).


Jesus is the kinsman
redeemer, and the price He paid to redeem the world was exceedingly
high

I did not find the passage you refer to in the SS lesson? Can you paste the exact quote?
Shalom

 

[crystalrainfall]

Yes. Here is the quote. "Boaz falls deeply in love with Ruth and wishes to marry her, but there is a significant barrier, there is a closer relative who also has a claim on the woman and the land. If we consider Boaz to be a type of Christ, this situation may reveal an issue at stake in the great controversy. Christ loves us, but there is a 'closer relative' who also has a claim: Satan." (This is on June 10th). I was filled with horror when I read that, and I reached out to a couple of friends of mine to see what they thought. One of them actually gave a really good response.
Here is her response. "I think that sometimes using one thing to illustrate another can be taken too far. I don't think that he was saying that Satan was a potential redeemer, but that he has a claim on us because of sin. Also that as Boaz was given the right to redeem the estate of his kinsman, Jesus made Himself our kinsman by living as one of us, and was able to dispute what Satan portrayed as a prior claim, but judgement will show as Jesus' superior claim."
I wrote her back telling her that was a good answer, but that I wish he had been more careful with his choice of words and she wrote "I agree. I thought it was awkward and had the potential to be misunderstood."
I had also written my sister about it, who is a respected teacher at an Adventist college. She agreed with me that the quote was disturbing and wrote her pastor and elder about it.
In the end it may be that he took liberty to express something which was not a correct representation of the biblical truth which he was trying to convey. It was shocking to read the quote though. I hope someone in a higher position than I will show him his error.

 

[rob]

If I was in your Sabbath School class I would talk about the TWO saraph beings upon the pole.

Not one as most SDA claim.

Here is the Bible verse:

Nu 21:5 ...our soul loatheth this light bread.

Israel did not like doing faith and disliked the symbol of faith they ate, ie manna.

Nu 21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents

The term saraph nachash is fine because in a verb sense the word saraph means burning.

So the snakes were burning ones, that when they bit the people they died with a burning sensation.

Nu 21:7 We have sinned <chata'>,

Notice Israel did not "pesha" transgress the law, they did missing.

meaning they broke faith, they no longer trusted in their Saviour.

Nu 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a SARAPH, and set it upon a pole:

This is the first and only time the word saraph meaning burning, is used as a NOUN, meaning "burning one" and Moses was told to place one on a pole. Moses instead make a copy of what He thought.

Now these "burning ones" exist around the throne of God, in other Bible verses, and this includes Jesus as a "burning one"
The term I think means the "burning nature of love".

Now only in this sense is the Opposer in any way related to the Saviour. Both were "burning ones" but Jesus is still a "burning one of love"

Hope this helps
Shalom