The Godhead of the Holy Spirit.

[crystalrainfall]

I am concerned with the growing anti-Trinitarian belief in some people within our church. Jesus said, "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come." (Mat 12:31,32).
There is huge and real danger in denying the Personhood of the Holy Spirit. It may be putting your soul at risk of eternal damnation to deny the existence of the Third Person of the Godhead.
Ellen White affirms the Trinity, saying: "There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit - those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will cooperate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ." Evangelism, 615.
"The power of evil had been strengthening for centuries, and the submission of men to this satanic captivity was amazing. Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the Third Person of the Godhead, who would come with no modified energy." Desire of Ages, 671.
"The Holy Spirit is the Comforter, in Christ’s name. He personifies Christ, yet is a distinct personality." Manuscript 93, 1893, paragraph 8.
If you are an Adventist who believes in Ellen White, how can you say you do not believe in the Holy Spirit, who is the Third Person of the Godhead?
Are you playing with your salvation by denying the Holy Spirit?

 

[rob]

Are you willing to discuss this topic Crystalrainfall?

I affirm in three divine powers which are best described as a Divine Family Power.
I do not affirm the traditions and precepts of men with an invented word trinity, for starters such a view does not see all three members as a Divine Family Model. I can defend my views using the Bible and EGW if you are interested in this topic?

Shalom

 

[rob]

Than there is the Restitution Ministries model, that there is only two Strong Authorities and the Holy Spirit is just a force of the Father or the Son. I went to see James Stump in person, listened to him, purchased his 450 p book and asked the Lord for a rebuttal.

The biggest proof there are three Divine Beings in the Godhead is this verse found in the oldest Hebrew we have:

Job 40:1 ¶ Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said,
2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.

These three listed are "Jesus-YHWH, Father ELOAH and Holy Spirit as the Shadday"

Restitution Ministries boast why is there need of the Holy Spirit during the Great Controversy but no need after sin.
They are correct, the Ruwach means Medium, and is not required after sin, but if you look into the Hebrew Names, the Shadday is a feminine personality of love administrating the function of the Holy Spirit, It is clear the Shadday is the third coeternal being of the Godhead from this verse, the last in the Bible:

Re 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

In this Greek, that originally was written as Hebrew we have

Re 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Father YHWH Elohiym Shadday and the Lamb are the temple of it.

Notice the same three Names in the oldest book, and no mention of the function of the Ruwach.

So CrystalRainfall, what problems do you pose, in your post?

 

[rob]

I posted my findings to the SDA CHurch back in January 2007 and this is what they said

"
There is not even one single text of the Bible to suggest such an identification of "Shadday" with the Holy Spirit as the third person of the Godhead. It is not a question of whether there are some texts which can be understood that way. The link is simply totally absent from the Holy Scriptures.

The conclusion is, therefore, self-evident. The theory is nothing but speculation. It has no biblical foundation whatsoever."

Its a pity I cannot discuss this with them, their study was alone, and their response a monologue. Case closed. What kind of dialogue is that?

Funny people get offended easily and are not willing to discuss the evidence before them. The Church scholars I have discussed with, such as the late Dr Eric Livingstone, a champion in Greek and Hebrew studies, we both were different as East is from West.
I purchased a book he asked me to purchase, James Barr, semantics of Hebrew, in that book he speaks of the root Hebrew fallacy. I said to Eric, did you learn to be a scholar under this man? He said yes. No wonder we disagree so much. Everything this man poses is completely wrong. I suggest to unlearn your scholarship and learn Ancient Hebrew research, as Jeff Benner poses. Eric was unwilling to do that, so we agreed to disagree over many meanings of Hebrew words. It is sad, we were friends even.

While I also contend with Jeff Benner over some issues, at least he is along the right track over many issues with Hebrew.

My problem with people that get easily offended and refuse to enter into discussion, before you have posted your evidence. So we do not learn anything at all. I was a teacher for 27 years, and when students fail to ask questions, they are not learning. And I find over many Spiritual topics we as SDA people are just rambling along with traditions and precepts of men, to our peril.

Shalom

 

[rob]

Here is one of the so called not a shred of evidence that the Shadday administrates the function of the Holy Spirit :

(c) Administrator of visions

Nu 24:4 He hath said, which heard the words of God "el" "Strong authority", which saw the vision of the Almighty "Shadday", falling into a trance, but having his eyes open:

The Shadday administrates visions..

So what does SOP say about this?

{LS80 233.1} Then Thayer took a heavy, large quarto family Bible which was lying on the table, and seldom used, opened it, and laid it upon Sister Ellen while in vision, as she was then inclined backward against the wall in the corner of the room. Immediately after the Bible was laid upon her, she arose upon her feet, and walked into the middle of the room, with the Bible open in one hand, and lifted as high as she could reach, and with her eyes steadily looking upward, declared in a solemn manner, "The inspired testimony from God," or words of the same import. While the Bible was thus extended in one hand, and her eyes looking upwards, and not on the Bible, she continued for a long time, to turn over the leaves with her other hand, and place her finger upon certain passages, and correctly repeat their words with a solemn voice.

{LS 468.3} "In December, 1844, the Holy Spirit gave her a revelation of the second coming of Christ. In this vision of the future there was given a view of the glorious reward that awaits the redeemed and the terrible fate that will come to all who refuse to serve their Lord and Master.
In holy vision John saw a door opened in Heaven. It is the arm of Almighty Power that has opened this door, and no man can shut it. Through this open door is revealed the temple of God, in the Most Holy Place of which is the ark, and in this ark is the law of ten commandments, written with the finger of God on tables of stone. {ST May 5, 1887, par. 2}

Now for a Bible verse linking "Almighty" to "vision" and "with eyes open"

Nu 24:4 He hath said, which heard the words of God, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling into a trance, but having his eyes open:

The word "God" here is "el" meaning "Strong Authority" and the word "Almighty" is Shadday.
A Bible verse linking the Shadday as a function for the Medium or Holy Spirit:

Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

The "Spirit of God" is "Medium of Strong Authority" the term "ruwach" is often translated as the Holy Spirit.
The "breath of the Almighty" is the term is "nashamah of the Shadday"
Now if you wander through EGW, there is no mention of the Father or the Son as an administrator of visions.

There are 235 results in EGW for "Father vision" as a search, but none show the Father administrating visions directly.
The only reference the Bible gives is via the Shadday which is also referenced via the Holy Spirit.
The problem with any research is we have to spend hours looking for treasure in the Word. How many SDA people read their BIble and EGW as one would look for gold these days? Some of us might say tone down the use of Hebrew, as I am not learned.

Isa 29:12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

We have to become as we always were, people of the book. Shalom

 

[Zdelen]

Pak je tu model Restitution Ministries, kde existují pouze dvě silné autority a Duch svatý je jen síla Otce nebo Syna. Šel jsem osobně navštívit Jamese Stumpa, poslechl si ho, koupil si jeho knihu za 450 pencí a požádal Pána o vyvrácení.

Největším důkazem toho, že v Božství existují tři Božské bytosti, je tento verš, který se nachází v nejstarší hebrejštině, kterou máme:

Jób 40:1 Hospodin Jóbovi odpověděl:
2 Zdaliž ten, kdo se s Všemohoucím příčí, ho poučí? Kdo Boha kárá, ať na to odpoví.

Tito tři uvedení jsou „Ježíš-JHWH, Otec ELOAH a Duch svatý jako tábořiště“.

Restituční služby se chlubí tím, že je Duch svatý potřeba během Velkého sporu, ale po hříchu už ne .
Mají pravdu, Ruwach znamená Médium a není vyžadováno po hříchu , ale pokud se podíváte na hebrejská jména, Šaddaj je ženská osobnost lásky, která spravuje funkci Ducha svatého. Z tohoto verše, posledního v Bibli, je jasné, že Šaddaj je třetí spoluvěčnou bytostí Božství:

Zj 21:22 A chrám jsem v něm neviděl, neboť chrámem jeho je Hospodin Bůh všemohoucí a Beránek.

V této řečtině, která byla původně napsána hebrejsky, máme

Zj 21:22 A chrám jsem v něm neviděl, neboť jeho chrámem je Otec Hospodin, Bůh všehomíra, a Beránek.

Všimněte si stejných tří jmen v nejstarší knize a žádné zmínky o funkci Ruwachu.

Takže CrystalRainfall, jaké problémy ve svém příspěvku nastolujete?

Bible sama nenabízí systematickou doktrínu Trojice , ale texty, které pozdější teologové spojili do učení o Trojici .

 

[Zdelen]

Bible sama nenabízí systematickou doktrínu Trojice , ale texty, které pozdější teologové spojili do učení o Trojici .

 

[rob]

The Bible itself does not offer a systematic doctrine of the Trinity, but texts that later theologians have combined into the doctrine of the Trinity. [Your translation in English from Czech]
Your reply is too general? Do these verses change your idea of GOD?
Ho 4:19 The wind hath bound her up in her wings, and they shall be ashamed because of their sacrifices.
(KJV)
The "wind" is the Hebrew word "ruwach" meaning "Holy Spirit"
The Holy Spirit hath bound Jerusalem in her wings.
And this verse spoken by Jesus:
Mt 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
"Wisdom" is a symbolic description of the Holy Spirit, with her children, those who are redeemed.

God is a Divine Family, not some human defined notion we call "trinity" - whatever that means?

Czech

Vaše odpověď je příliš obecná? Mění tyto verše vaši představu o BOHU?

Oz 4:19 Vítr ji svázal svými křídly a oni se budou stydět za své oběti. (KJV)

„Vítr“ je hebrejské slovo „ruwach“, což znamená „Duch svatý“. Duch svatý svázal Jeruzalém svými křídly. A tento verš pronesl Ježíš:

Mt 11:19 Přišel Syn člověka, jí a pije, a říkají: „Hle, muž žrout a pijan vína, přítel celníků a hříšníků. Moudrost je však ospravedlněna svými dětmi.“

„Moudrost“ je symbolický popis Ducha svatého s jejími dětmi, těmi, kteří jsou vykoupeni. Bůh je Božská rodina, ne nějaký lidsky definovaný pojem, kterému říkáme „trojice“ – ať už to znamená cokoli?

Shalom

 

[Zdelen]

Samotná Bible nenabízí systematickou doktrínu o Trojici, ale texty, které pozdější teologové sjednotili do doktríny o Trojici. [Váš překlad z češtiny do angličtiny]
Vaše odpověď je příliš obecná? Mění tyto verše vaši představu o BOHU?
Oz 4,19 Vítr ji svírá ve svých křídlech a oni se budou stydět za své oběti.
(Královský verš)
„Vítr“ je hebrejské slovo „ruwach“, které znamená „Duch svatý“.
Duch svatý spoutal Jeruzalém svými křídly.
A tento verš, který pronesl Ježíš:
Mt 11:19 Přišel Syn člověka, jí a pije. Říkají: „Hle, člověk žrout a pijan vína, přítel celníků a hříšníků.“ Moudrost je však ospravedlněna svými dětmi.
„Moudrost“ je symbolický popis Ducha svatého s jeho dětmi, těmi, kteří jsou vykoupeni.

Bůh je Božská Rodina, ne nějaký lidsky definovaný pojem, kterému říkáme „trojice“ – ať už to znamená cokoli?

čeština

Vaše odpověď je příliš obecná? Mění tyto verše vaši představu o BOHU?

Oz 4:19 Vítr ji svázal svými křídly a oni se budou stydět za svou oběti. (KJV)

„Vítr“ je hebrejské slovo „ruwach“, což znamená „Duch svatý“. Duch svatý svázal Jeruzalém svými křídly. A tento verš pronesl Ježíš:

Mt 11:19 Přišel Syn člověka, jí a pije, říká: "Hle, muž žrout a pijan vína, přítel celníků a hříšníků. Moudrost je však ospravedlněna svými dětmi."

„Moudrost“ je symbolický popis Ducha svatého s jejími dětmi, těmi, kteří jsou vykoupeni. Bůh je Božská rodina, ne nějaký lidsky definovaný pojem, kterému říkáme „trojice“ – ať už to znamená cokoli?

Nepohybuji se v představách, pokud jde o Boha Otce, Boha Ježíše Krista a Boha Ducha svatého.

 

[rob]

Our Czech replied "I am not moving in imagination when it comes to God the Father, God Jesus Christ, and God the Holy Spirit.


Work our you own salvation with fear and trembling the NT says. You offer no Bible verse for your stand only a belief in traditions and precepts of men. At least my presentation is Biblical, did you agree with the verses I showed you? How did these two verses affect your view? Shalom


S bázní a chvěním pracujte na své vlastní spáse, říká Nová smlouva. Neuvádíte žádný biblický verš pro svůj postoj, pouze víru v tradice a přikázání lidí. Alespoň moje prezentace je biblická, souhlasíte s verši, které jsem vám ukázal? Jak tyto dva verše ovlivnily váš názor? Šalom.