Familiar spirits

[Le Roy]

I experienced a 21 day trial. It seemed like all the stops were pulled out and the devil was given full authority to hammer me with offense, anger and hatred. There were a number of people who said or did things that really offended me, and I felt such anger to the point that I wanted to slug somebody. To be honest, I don’t think any of them really knew what they were doing or that it had the effect on me that it did. It seemed like wave after wave of of anger and offense rolled over me without any let up. During this time, a friend of mine was sharing what she had learned in a book about self hatred. Once she shared about it, I felt like I really hated myself deep inside, and I wanted to run out of the room, screaming. Finally, I asked her, so what did you do with this information? She said she looked at herself in the mirror, raised her hands up and blessed herself. Then she said, I told myself that I love me. Physically, I just sat there looking at her but inside I wanted to throw up as it sounded so narcissistic not that I was accusing her of narcissism, but if I were to do that that’s what it would be. At the end of this three week time. I was sitting on the edge of my bed and everything was calm like it would be in the eye of a storm. It’s like God had brought me to this place so I could look at the events of the past three weeks swirling around me, like Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz. As I sat there, looking at the events of the past three weeks there was no reaction in me no passion no anger no offense. I was just a quiet observer. Then I heard God speak, not audibly but definitely I heard the words in my mind, “That’s not you!”
In that moment, the truth went into my heart. I could see that it was Satan, who is filled with offense and hatred toward the Son of God. And since he cannot touch the Son, his only outlet is to destroy the temples in which the Son dwells. These familiar spirits say things to us in first person so that we believe the thoughts to be our own and after planting those seeds, we give birth to anger, hatred, and offense. I could clearly see how I had been identifying with the heart of the adversary. It was like the curtain was pulled back and I could see how he was involved in all of it and that I did not need to give him any agreement. After considering this truth for a few moments, he spoke again, and the message I received was, the mirror that I want you to look into and bless are the people that I bring before you who show you who you really are. They are like mirrors to show your faults and weakness and often you cannot identify with their failures until God opens your eyes and show you that you are no different. You’ve just been covering the excrement with flowers and perfume. As you see this, your judgments and complaints against them melt away because you see that you are no differentand you can bless them, you can love them. I thought this was much easier than the narcissistic view that I had before. It truly was a liberating experience and I understood the meaning of the of the words, “The truth will make you free.” It doesn’t set you free it changes something in your understanding, something in your heart so that you are ‘made’ free of the deceptive thoughts of those familiar spirits. If someone comes into my experience and they say or do something that churns within me, I know that I have something to look at and I can be thankful for they are like wise men, bearing the gift of eye salve.
Now, whenever I hear or feel something that I know is not heavenly, I can look at it and know that it is not me.

 

[rob]

Wow what a testimony.

My own experience with familiar spirits of Satan came at midnight I think one night the boys in the dormitory at Kambubu High School PNG in 1989 wanted me to come and cast out the spirits in the dorm. So I grabbed my Bible and walked into the eerie darkness of the dorm. We have generator power and after 9:30pm the generator goes out. It was pitch dark. I walked down the corridor and felt a thick presence. That was it. It really challenged my experience in the Lord, and looking back while I dabbled in faith, and knew about the "calling in the Name of the Lord" I did not have the experiences of genuine faith as I have today.

I find it strange that 2nd generation Adventists indigenous people would revert back to black devil magic when it suited them. But they did. One time we had a native PNG pastor as an evangelist do a great job every day for a week in our school, which I helped him, he visited every student during the day for talks, and raped the girls as he wished. We did not know that until at the end of the week and the UNION mission, all they did was transfer him to another part of the PNG country. Arrh yes the spirit of Satan lives in all people, but especially the SDA kind. Even in Australia too, but they load lots of money each week in Church coffers and are tolerated.

Ex 14:12 Is not this the word that we did tell thee in Egypt, saying, Let us alone, that we may serve the Egyptians? For it had been better for us to serve the Egyptians, than that we should die in the wilderness.

This verse is saying the SDA Israel people did not want or like God's version of faith, they wanted their version of faith to include self and human powers, they did not want self to die and human powers to die in the wilderness.

I found the native SDA students using the faith in Satan to help them win soccer matches every Sunday. I asked them why don't you use faith in God to win a soccer match? They replied because it does not work. Oh I see, I replied. God would not fill your pride so you use the faith in the Devil instead.

Don't tell me we do not understand faith. We just don't want to use genuine faith. We prefer spurious faith instead, and allow a familiar spirit to empower us. Thanks for your testimony about this.

Shalom

 

[Le Roy]

When I was at La Serra and LLU long ago, I was involved with the Christian students who were the most serious about God. At that time my understanding of faith was sort of like grunting real hard when I prayed. Yet God did manifest His power in spite of that weakness, I have come to understand that it is just believing what God believes. When He says, “you are dead and your life is hidden with Christ in God” it is a serious reality. When He says that “your old man WAS crucified that the body of sin might be destroyed” then it must be true. He is saying that our Adam nature was put to death and we are now partakers of His divine nature, humanity and divinity combined. The only thing that prevents that from being manifest in our life is that we don’t really believe it. We often hear that, “We are only human” and we believe lie from the pit instead. I think that it is so often stated from the pulpit in terms that insinuate the opposite of what God has stated as fact. We are somehow trained to think that the devil is such a powerful adversary. Sister Ellen says in so many words, that the devil has no ability to over come the weakest soul who relies on Christ.

 

[Chief]

Now, whenever I hear or feel something that I know is not heavenly, I can look at it and know that it is not me.

The night is darkest near dawn. I'm so glad you sat it out and heard the still small voice telling you the path you should follow. The devil comes to rob, kill and destroy and because he cannot reach God, he goes after the "apple of His eye" as you have aptly put it.

We often hear that, “We are only human” and we believe lie from the pit instead. I think that it is so often stated from the pulpit in terms that insinuate the opposite of what God has stated as fact. We are somehow trained to think that the devil is such a powerful adversary. Sister Ellen says in so many words, that the devil has no ability to over come the weakest soul who relies on Christ.

Our confidence is in the proclamation that Christ has overcome the evil one, and in Him, we are overcomers.

I find it strange that 2nd generation Adventists indigenous people would revert back to black devil magic when it suited them. But they did. One time we had a native PNG pastor as an evangelist do a great job every day for a week in our school, which I helped him, he visited every student during the day for talks, and raped the girls as he wished. We did not know that until at the end of the week and the UNION mission, all they did was transfer him to another part of the PNG country. Arrh yes the spirit of Satan lives in all people, but especially the SDA kind. Even in Australia too, but they load lots of money each week in Church coffers and are tolerated.

This is disheartening. The evil propagated by the shepherds unchecked is sad and deserves to be condemned by all, especially those who have been vested with the responsibility of tending to the flock. We live in evil times indeed, the leadership is reluctant to crack the whip, in fact, they are willing to look the other way if the perpetrator has a track record of filling the coffers.

 

[Le Roy]

As I have read about the subject of demonic activity I have come to some conclusions as well as some questions.
“ That temple, erected for the abode of the divine Presence, was designed to be an object lesson for Israel and for the world. From eternal ages it was God's purpose that every created being, from the bright and holy seraph to man, should be a temple for the indwelling of the Creator. Because of sin, humanity ceased to be a temple for God. Darkened and defiled by evil, the heart of man no longer revealed the glory of the Divine One.” DA 161

The object lesson of the temple was God’s desire to dwell within us, divinity and humanity combined, as a marriage union where the two become one. (John 17) In this way the Creator could blend His life and will with the heart and mind of each created being, thus preventing chaotic individuality. Does anyone disagree?

So if the temple was no longer a dwelling place for the Creator who was dwelling there?
“… unless we do yield ourselves to the control of Christ, we shall be dominated by the wicked one. We must inevitably be under the control of the one or the other of the two great powers that are contending for the supremacy of the world.” DA 324

How invasive is this possession?
“Satanic agencies were incorporated with men. The bodies of human beings, made for the dwelling place of God, had become the habitation of demons. The senses, the nerves, the passions, the organs of men, were worked by supernatural agencies in the indulgence of the vilest lust.” DA 36

There are several more pieces of evidences but to save space… This quote indicates to me that possession looks to be a systemic occupation on a cellular level. When it speaks of the human temple I have tended to think of a hollow place inside of us. Not any more.
So, what was the condition of Adam and Eve after the fall?

 

[rob]

You are asking some difficult questions, and many of them I have only been given some answers to by the Lord

I tend to agree with everything here

Question: Is self something natural within us, or the possession of the Opposer as a Provider of empowered powers, because the Human has asked for this? Thus I see "Self" as some entity empowered by supernatural forces that oppose God, as the supernatural force we were supposed to be inhabited by.

This is why when the first creature sinned, the Father engineered the "Self" in him as a Provider of such power, and later the creature was able to influence other cherubim, hence becoming a "Father" of lies, as Jesus describes this Opposer of God.
This explains why the scape goat has to be the final creature to take responsibility for individual sinning, because it is the Provider of all supernatural influences for sin.

Both supernatural influences have faith as a process of empowering the human. The Opposer does not boast about His empowering of humans because this would lead him exposed, so he leaves the human alone largely and thus hopes the human sins using human powers and thus sees "self" as a purely natural evil inclination, as Jewish notion of Yester Ra is portrayed.

In order to investigate this theory more deeper you would have to learn about the Hebrew word "aven" that is a genetic recording system functioning as epi-genetics, that essentially recording all free will pet habits you do, thus passing on your influence to future generations. See more: https://spiritualsprings.org/ss-1076.htm

I have yet to publish some more understanding of this topic, but I hope you have some two pennies of thought. Shalom

 

[Le Roy]

Well here are my 2 pennies:
The soul temple is created for and meant to be inhabited on a very deep level perhaps systemic in nature. I don’t think there is a middle ground where we are without some degree of habitation.
Below is one of my favorite quotes, and it clarifies how habitation occurs. Plus in principle it could apply to either God’s Son or a familiar spirit. In the link that was provided in the previous post it used the words ‘conceive’ and ‘conception’. When we have intercourse with God or evil spirits, thoughts, like seeds, are expressed and if accepted or ‘conceive’, we then give birth to the fruit of those ‘seeds’. We can give birth to the children of anger, offense, bitterness, self-pity, etc. Or we can give birth to His character, manifest His spirit, and work His works. I think the marriage union and the procreative act are the premier object lessons that reveal our relationship with God.

“But to pray in Christ's name means much. It means that we are to accept His character, manifest His spirit, and work His works… It was heart work with Christ. And if we consent, He will so identify Himself with our thoughts and aims, so blend our hearts and minds into conformity to His will, that when obeying Him we shall be but carrying out our own impulses. The will, refined and sanctified, will find its highest delight in doing His service. When we know God as it is our privilege to know Him, our life will be a life of continual obedience.” DA 668
There is so much to gain from these words of inspiration.
To ‘consent’ is where we exercise our free will. Because of weakness we may not be able to choose what to do but we can choose who will control us.
To ‘identify’: the soul can take on a new identity in Christ or become a slave by demonic control. When the demoniac spoke the identity was that of a demon. When Simeon spoke at the dedication of baby Jesus, the identity was that of God who was speaking. We can think God’s thoughts after Him. And if any thoughts come to us that are not of God, we can say, “That’s not me!” We need not identify with them.
‘His will’ We can give our consent to surrender and then God will do the willing and doing according to His good pleasure. Otherwise we will do the will of another.
Paul says, “In Him we live and move and find our being.” And it could be equally be said, “In us He lives and moves and finds His being.
Throughout the day we are bombarded with thoughts and we need to be aware of from where they come. Most thoughts are not from our own mind. It is like these spirits speak in such a familiar way we tend to think they are us. Instead of fighting these thoughts we only need to recognize who is suggesting and expose him.

 

[rob]

You state thoughts are like seeds that germinate in us bearing fruit. "Kiss the Seed Ps 2 says, in Matthew 13, Jesus sowed seeds, which are seeds of faith, so essentially the parable is about sowing genuine faith in the heart

You quote "“But to pray in Christ's name means much." I see this as doing genuine faith....

Finally you state: "Most thoughts are not from our own mind. It is like these spirits speak in such a familiar way we tend to think they are us. Instead of fighting these thoughts we only need to recognize who is suggesting and expose him."

Hmm? I ask the Lord often how do I know who is talking to me? By your fruits ye shall know them, is the answer I receive.
A bad thought does not make good fruit. Nor does a good thought cause you to sin.

When you hear the voices from the conscience speaking to you, discern whom is whom, your self, or GOD via the HS, or the Opposer called Satan.

Question: When God's spirit teaches you new light, but others do not accept that light, does that make you possessed by familiar spirits who deceive the very elect, or perhaps you have others mocking you? Which is it?

For example after 50 years the Lord has shown me genuine faith for the first time? I found the statement in Mrs White "to appropriate to yourself the Precious Promises" wow, I didn't know such a statement existed. Or perhaps I am self deluded by a familiar spirit?
There are only one in twenty SDA saved Mrs White says... so you can be almost saved but also be wholly lost. profound statement !

Thanks for your two pennies of thought. I tend to concur with them. Shalom

 

[Le Roy]

You state thoughts are like seeds that germinate in us bearing fruit. "Kiss the Seed Ps 2 says, in Matthew 13, Jesus sowed seeds, which are seeds of faith, so essentially the parable is about sowing genuine faith in the heart

You quote "“But to pray in Christ's name means much." I see this as doing genuine faith....

Rather than focusing on the word "faith" I want to look at the fruit or outcome. "accept His character, manifest His spirit, and work His works"
When consenting adults come together there is an offspring. When we consent to a spirit working into us, its will and purposes are worked out through us. Since we stepped away from God by this process God made it possible for us to return by the same. But that return must pass through the tomb. Crucifixion death and resurrection. Prior to the cross Jesus could have failed, he could have disobeyed because Adam's nature was in him. that nature had to parish. When he stepped out of the tomb the Adam nature remained behind. Now He could not be overcome he was a new creature. Humanity and divinity were married into one new man, the second Adam. He demonstrated on the cross that every part of our Adam nature must go to the cross. We are told that we are already dead, buried and raised to new life in Romans 6. Soo...every time a familiar spirit pops by to try and convince us that 'the old man and the body of sin' is still kicking, we have an opportunity to exercise faith in what God has said and put another nail in the coffin. The new birth offers to and works out within the believer a life of continual obedience. Once you step out of your watery grave you must believe God that you are as Jesus was on resurrection morning , that is His gift to you.

Finally you state: "Most thoughts are not from our own mind. It is like these spirits speak in such a familiar way we tend to think they are us. Instead of fighting these thoughts we only need to recognize who is suggesting and expose him."

Hmm? I ask the Lord often how do I know who is talking to me? By your fruits ye shall know them, is the answer I receive.
A bad thought does not make good fruit. Nor does a good thought cause you to sin.

My sheep hear my voice and they follow. How did Abraham know it was God talking to him? The spirit is given as an unction. "But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things." 1John 2:20 that word unction is also translated 'anointing'. How do you know? You know because you know his voice. If you are united with the Son, raised up together with him, he will keep you. Jude 24. We need not fear that we will be deceived. I think that is an error and a big doctrine in the church. "Learn to be afraid!" Perfect love casts out fear. focus on your love union and trust in Him to keep you. Here is where we walk in faith. The just will live by faith...they will always believe what God believes, they appropriate His words. When Eve was assaulted it was to disbelieve the word of God. When Jesus was assaulted in the wilderness it was for him to doubt the Father's word which he heard 40 days prior. "If you be the Son, prove it..." Jesus heard it from the Father's mouth and that was good enough for him, That is why he said he lived by every word that comes from the Father's mouth. It wasn't about bread or hunger or appetite, it was about the word of God was it true or was it not? Often it is a matter of waiting on God to bring to pass what He has given you to do. The 'waiting' is what He wants to teach you more than anything.

Question: When God's spirit teaches you new light, but others do not accept that light, does that make you possessed by familiar spirits who deceive the very elect, or perhaps you have others mocking you? Which is it?

I don't know where but I believe that sister Ellen speaks of new light. I have asked myself if there has been any new light in the church since 1915? I can't think of any. Yet I have had a number of beliefs overturned and greater light comes out of it. It does not make what I once held to be wrong or a deception, it makes it deeper and brighter. The doctrine is illuminated and the prior belief seems like looking at Legos compared to solid brick and mortar. I expect that throughout eternity greater light will eclipsed previous knowledge, and we will say Holy Holy Holy.

For example after 50 years the Lord has shown me genuine faith for the first time? I found the statement in Mrs White "to appropriate to yourself the Precious Promises" wow,!

Let your faith appropriate that you are not 'only human' but that you are humanity and divinity combined? 2 Peter 1:4 Let your faith appropriate that He will keep you from falling and present you faultless. Let your faith appropriate that the divine Son is actually living in you just as He did in the Son of Mary. Just as real as a baby that is inside a mother?
Perhaps more than a few pennies but you can take it to the bank of heaven.

 

[rob]

You my friend have a profound understanding of God, and genuine faith.

I agree with everything so much

One question, unpack the word "The spirit is given as an unction. "" ?

Let your faith appropriate that you are not 'only human' but that you are humanity and divinity combined?
Yes read my two pennies on this https://spiritualsprings.proboards.com/thread/112/practical-examples-genuine-faith

Shalom

 

[Le Roy]

You my friend have a profound understanding of God, and genuine faith.

I agree with everything so much

One question, unpack the word "The spirit is given as an unction. "" ?

For the sake of space I will not share all the proof text because that would be like preaching to the choir. In some cases I will share the reference. If you have a specific question I will then share the text. I will have to share what I consider greater or new light as many have rejected it or do not understand it. I hope this answers your question regarding 1John 2:20

Our first parents were created with skills talents and extraordinary intellect as well as a special spiritual connection to the Creator. They could hear him speaking to their heart and obedience to His will was a natural outflow of that connection until they had intercourse with the adversary. Also they sought after God with a heart full of love and desire for him.
They had been warned that disobedience would result in death and I believe that something actually died that day. By yielding to doubt, their spiritual vitality or life died.
They were conformed to Satan’s nature DA 114.3
Love was replaced by fear and unchecked desires. Out of this come all sinned, chaos and disfunction.
They had nothing within to return to God, without realizing it they were at war with God. I believe the plan of redemption was instituted right then or humanity would have perished.
"He was the Redeemer before as after His incarnation. As soon as there was sin, there was a Saviour. He has given light and life to all, and according to the measure of light given, each is to be judged. And He who has given the light, He who has followed the soul with tenderest entreaty, seeking to win it from sin to holiness…”DA 210

“REDEEMER BEFORE AS AFTER” He was on the job from the beginning and still is.
“AS SOON” this implies in Eden.
“LIGHT AND LIFE TO ALL” This would include all of Eve’s seed. All who ever drew breath from Cain until today. John 1:9
“HE WHO HAS FOLLOWED THE SOUL WITH TENDEREST ENTREATY”
It would follow that the Son was given to the world back then and has ‘followed' every son and daughter of Adam supplying them with His own spiritual faculty. After all it is the presence of God’s Son in the soul that leads to life and eternity. If He was not there and available to enter the heart of those who vicariously listened and gave consent where would they be?

Many have disagreed with this view so let us consider it. I believe that the Son condescended to enter humanity as a ‘seed’ or ‘conscience’, as he was supplying humanity with a replacement of His own life for that which had just died. He was there within as that Gift of enmity toward Satan. That enmity was a constituent of His Love. He was there, available as a help to combat their now natural enmity against God which was a part of Satan’s nature. As a seed he could hear that still small voice for us and if we would be quiet He would be our spiritual ears for ongoing guidance. He would supply His love and obedience to the Father, where we had none. In this act He was knocking at the door of the heart as well as supplying the ability to open the door for those who would ‘consent’.
"And if we consent, He will so blend our hearts and minds in conformity to His will, that when obeying Him we shall be but carrying out our own impulses. The will finds its highest delight in doing His service. Our life will be a life of continual obedience. Sin will become hateful to us.
I believe that He is the ‘antenna’ to receive the unction or anointing which abides in Him and by consent in us. 1John 2:20
The important part of that verse is "we know all things" Jesus knew all things on a need to know basis for he was just as dependent on a power outside of himself as we are.

Let your faith appropriate that you are not 'only human' but that you are humanity and divinity combined?
Yes read my two pennies on this https://spiritualsprings.proboards.com/thread/112/practical-examples-genuine-faith

The knowledge of redemption has been revealed to humanity through types and symbols piece by piece a little here and a little there throughout our history. When Jesus came on the scene he demonstrated what the true temple was and what it is like to experience redemption. Also what the path of redemption looks like. But I have to believe that over the last 2000 years there was more to understand about redemption and I don't think it ended with the knowledge that was given to Ellen White. When I was at La Sierra college I participated in a prayer clinic called the positive way which was all about claiming promises. Back then people were asking God for their glasses or their book that was missing. They were experimenting in the science of prayer and claiming promises. While I was working in the inner city a young man came to me regarding his smoking habit. During the interview I suggested, "Have you ever asked God to make you sick of smoking?" As we left the house we were walking down the street and he could not resist the temptation to have another cigarette. He checked in his glove box and there were no matches he went into a convenience store and got some matches. After loading one up he became very sick. I suggested that he should be praising God for answering prayer and he said he was too sick to praise God. So I have some familiarity with claiming promises but looking back, I have come to see that I really understood so little. Jesus pleading for strength was an example of prayer to fulfill the Father's will. When we read memorize and meditate on the promises they have an affect on healing our mind by removing our unbelief and misconceptions that blocks the functioning of the mind of Christ. I think as one matures they transform their prayers into a state of gratitude rather than asking. I think that is what is meant by appropriating and thanking God for his promises. And yet I think the greater part of prayer is listening.

Shalom

 

[rob]

I am so glad my friend we are on the same page experiencing genuine faith. What I want to know is why so few SDA understand what genuine faith is. You term it "claiming promises" Mrs White terms it "precious promises" and I term it "faith promises", and the Hosea 14:2 terms genuine faith as "Take to with you words, returning to the Lord, say to Him...."

You touch on something I feel is correct but have not experienced (I don't think) God is able to write the faith principles of asking automatically I feel in the heart, and this helps us from asking all the time in our minds.

You say it like this "hey could hear him speaking to their heart and obedience to His will was a natural outflow of that connection" I notice a profound difference in Two Hebrew words for heart "LB and "LBB" the difference between them is for the natural human powered heart is "The Authority at home" meaning your human powered authority at home, and "The Authority at home is relationship to the Home of Heaven" The second use of heart relates to God as you say living personally in your home because you asked for this.

We are made living energy because of the presence of the Holy Spirit living in us, but this living does not empower us with eternal living, only a probationary living because of our falling through Adam. Once you ask Jesus for His presence the Holy Spirit and Jesus empower a ongoing living from that point onwards, what I term the "breath of salvation".

I remember hearing this term about living in the heart from Witness Lee and Watchmen Nee both pioneer Chinese missionaries in olden times. But I would like you take on this process.

All the other points I also agree.

https://spiritualsprings.proboards.com/thread/69/bible-study-heart

This link is about the LAB and the LABAB, the threads are many because I am only still learning such a grand theme this is, and would love more details from you. Dabble in the threads on Lab and Labab, and see the difference.

Shalom

 

[rob]

In reading your statements, I found this posted in the many threads on the link in the Labab study

Ps 101:2 .. I will walk within my house with a perfect heart.

A complete LABAB - notice house is explaining the LAB, authority in your house

Ancient Hebrew “the Authority at Home’s HOME”

I see the LAB, as the Authority at home, while the LABAB is the authority at home in relationship to the heavenly Home.

Just as the MEDIUM of LIFE is the breath of life administrated by the Shadday as the Holy Spirit empowers the Father’s life force in you, and you also have a conscience where the voice of GOD talks to you, you also have a PLACE where GOD dwells in you physically called your LABAB, where all your thoughts and emotions are administrated by GOD as well. This administration and support comes to you with ongoing living, but you have to ask for this by faith and have daily faith to ask for miracles of His divine powers to do in you.

I think it is saying something similar to what you said earlier "They could hear him speaking to their heart and obedience to His will was a natural outflow of that connection" Shalom

 

[Le Roy]

In someways I found it difficult to follow the word study regarding the heart. But in a general it obviously means that God wants to be all and in all. Yes there is something about the heart that escape me as a person walking ahead of me in a dance fog and I catch glimpses of him from time to time. It seems to be something I can’t place a concrete definition on.
How ever he mentioned the pineal gland and I think he meant the pituitary gland. It does indeed sit between the eyes, the optic nerves travel inwards towards each other where they join and blend together like to roads might do. The optic chiasma rests right in front of the pituitary gland and branch off around the brain to the back of the head where the vision center is.
The pituitary gland is quite interesting as it orchestrates many of the hormonal functions in the body. Our feelings and emotions are the result of hormonal and neurological action. This area is where the most important functions of emotions, sight and decision making occur. This might be considered the ‘heart' or the center of where our ‘being' resides.
So why do I bring this up? Let's look into the inner precincts of the human temple. Some may scoff at the following information but sister Ellen states that the temple at Jerusalem was to be an object lesson not only for Israel but for the whole world. Some people think they must build a third temple. But we clearly are the true temple of God to which all the symbols and object lessons point.

The sanctuary in the wilderness had four coverings. The outer covering was some kind of animal skin with the hair on it. Underneath that was a second covering of ram skin dyed red and the third covering was ram skin without dye and was left white. The fourth and innermost covering was a tapestry of red blue and purple.
There are 4 coverings over to the human head. The scalp with hair, (on some of us). The second is the capillary beds filled with red blood The third is the white skull, and under that we find the brain with red arteries, blue veins and purple ventricles.
If the top of the skull and the brain are removed you can look into the most holy place. The sphenoid bone is like the chassis of the skull as every other bone is connected to it. As you look down there is a small saddle in which the pituitary gland sits and the optic nerves cross directly in front. In the center of the frontal bones there is a vertically ascending crest which may be seen as the shekinah flame above the saddle or mercy seat. The prefrontal lobes of the brain where the most important functions of thought and decisions are made rest right over these structures. The greater wings of the sphenoid bone join together with the temporal bones and form what we commonly call the temple. If the sphenoid bone is separated from all the other bones it clearly looks like the Ark of the covenant.

 

[Le Roy]

Rob wrote
We are made living energy because of the presence of the Holy Spirit living in us, but this living does not empower us with eternal living, only a probationary living because of our falling through Adam. Once you ask Jesus for His presence the Holy Spirit and Jesus empower a ongoing living from that point onwards, what I term the "breath of salvation".

I will address two things regarding the above quote. God's word tells us in 1John 5:10-11 and Col. 3:4 That it is the Son and His presence within who is the source of LIFE. We will live eternally because we are living on borrowed life. He will be our eternal life forever. The Holy Spirit is what empowers the Son within because He laid all that down to live in us and was just as dependent on the Father through the Spirit as we are. Yes we are on probation to see if we will follow where ever He leads. Will we listen and obey? Probation: Disobedience is what separates from the eternal life of the Son If He is left out we die.

Desire of Ages on 668 says this about the 'heart'. "It was heart work with Christ, and if we consent, He will so identify with our thoughts and aims..." It seems that it is the heart that He identifies with which in part, is our thoughts and purposes. He quietly insinuates the thoughts and aims from the Father into ours, and we begin to think God's thoughts after Him. "He so blends His will with our hearts and minds that when obeying His we are but carrying out our own impulses..." Here is where the natural outflow of obedience takes place. "When we know God as it is our privilege to know Him our life will be a life of continual obedience."
He becomes our all and in all. The Son will cry out to the Father from within our being and we may identify with that divinely supplied hunger. We vicariously enter into where the two of us become one. In that oneness with the Son is what I believe to be the marriage of the Lamb, and we know what to pray for. It is by waiting and listening that the Son so identifies with our need.

Consider the body of Christ. The son of God now has a human body and it is comprised of the believers. Jesus is the head of that human body and we are the other parts, but it is only one body. He is the divine spirit animating that body. In our great need we kneel at the cross He does not see the vileness of the sinner He sees the likeness of His Son. Why? Because He has taken up residence within the body of believers. He feels our pain, our sicknesses, He knows what depression is because He is so united with us He sees and feels it all. "The Sinless One must feel the shame of sin..." He feels it with in every human. "The peace lover must dwell with strife, the truth must abide with falsehood, purity with vileness. Every sin, every discord, every defiling lust that transgression had brought, was torture to His spirit." We have always read this as Jesus personal experience but I have come to see it as "All and in all". Matt. 8:17 "...Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses." He has experienced sickness in those who are sick because "He has so identified with us" "He is in us to both will and do..."

 

[rob]

So much interesting information Le. Your insights remind me of Kevin Kadengza, he is an expert on the temple and compare the altar, shew bread and ark to parts of the Human Temple, as we are similes of too. If my memory serves me, the coverings number11, but I was in agreement with your description and video. Very well done. It is my two pennies the temple seems to be a level one orgone accumulator, and I refer you to the work of William Reich who founded the Orgone Institute and was imprisoned for doing reasearch into cancer. There seems to be a blue energy field all over the body, what I term "living energy".

You Say "That it is the Son and His presence within who is the source of LIFE. We will live eternally because we are living on borrowed life. He will be our eternal life forever" I can agree with that but many SDA seem to have different nuances of opinion.

I would say the Son is our source of Life, especially if you seek Him for ongoing living - the meaning of "chayah".
I am sorry for my muddled journey into the study of "lab and labab" - I am still in training and learning.

My current training seems to think when you claim "faith promises" every day, and over and over again, these requests are implanted as a relationship into the heart, the place where God Himself resides with you. It's a wonderful thing this word "labab" and its meaning in Ancient Hebrew "The authority at home [ in relationship to] God's home" It brings great joy knowing this.
And uncanny the OT verses show such differences between the two.

De 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart "LABAB",

Notice GOD removes the human powered flesh from the heart to heart relationship, you are not to do things using human powers only. You are to do things using divine powers because you by faith ask for this all the time. That is what circumcision is about as a divine literal,

De 4:9 Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life: but teach them thy sons, and thy sons' sons; (KJV)

De 4:9 Process and process thy soul diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy "heart to heart relationship" all the days of thy life: but teach them thy sons, and thy sons' sons; (With Hebrew intent)

The word "shamar" is repeated twice, a Hebrew word in a verb and noun form. The KJV translate the verb as keep or obey and the noun as lees. But this makes the word polysemy. The verb means "process" and the noun "processed" and refers to the way grape juice is preserved by filtering the juice.

The word "process" is a powerful reminder to us, as we ask for "faith promises" and receive Divine power because we ask, this process is called in Scripture "processing the Lord" and His power. We are never to rest on our lees, but to be ever asking for His Divine powers because we ask for them.

One thing I liked about your video is the presentation of the bone looks very much as Jeff Benner describes the ark, like a Divine Chair or throne for God to sit upon. With angels left and right for companions. Scriptures allude to three thrones one on the left and one on the right. Thank you for your insights and testimonies. Shalom

 

[Le Roy]

You Say "That it is the Son and His presence within who is the source of LIFE. We will live eternally because we are living on borrowed life. He will be our eternal life forever" I can agree with that but many SDA seem to have different nuances of opinion.

Yes, I’ve had some interesting conversations at church regarding the incarnation of the son of God. There are two quotes from Ellen White that got me thinking about the nature of Christ on earth.
“The Lord’s body—God is seeking to make His church the continued incarnation of Christ. “PCL 23
She speaks here of a continuing process in other words, an ongoing habitation by God in the believers until the end of time. Romans 8:19-21 says that there is an earnest expectation even in the animal Kingdom for the manifestation of the sons of God I think this gives some strength to Ellen‘s statement about the continuing incarnation. Even the animals know it’s coming and long for it. “‭Because‭ the creature‭ itself‭ also‭ shall be delivered‭‭ from‭ the bondage‭ of corruption‭ into‭ the glorious‭ liberty‭ of the children‭ of God”
The other statement is very clear that the son of Mary and the Son of God are too distinct individuals. One is human and the other is a divine spirit “Was the human nature of the Son of Mary changed into the divine nature of the Son of God? No; the two natures were mysteriously blended in one person—the man Christ Jesus. In Him dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. When Christ was crucified, it was His human nature that died. Deity did not sink and die; that would have been impossible…Then the power and greatness and efficacy of the gift of God to man will be understood. But the enemy is determined that this gift shall be so mystified that it will become as nothingness “.LHU 76.2
The reason I spoke of familiar spirits in earlier posts was to demonstrate how they could have complete control of our senses, nerves and our organs. That demonstrates how complete possession can be within the human temple, to where they wear us like an glove, filling up our fingertips and toes, looking out through our eyes, hearing with our ears tasting with our tongue etc. Earlier, I shared statements of how Jesus felt the shame of sin yet he never participated in sin. And that he has born or sicknesses, yet he was never sick. Ellen White speaks of humanity and divinity combined. This is the incarnation. And when Paul or John writes about Christ being in us, I believe that it is the same with the son of Mary.
Romans, one says that Jesus was born of the seed of David according to the flesh. Which would make him genetically linked to David and by extension to Abraham and Adam. His genealogy through Mary in Luke chapter 3:23-38 goes all the way back to Adam and I think that is significant. The genealogy of Joseph in Matthew chapter 1 only goes back to Abraham and there is another very interesting study there but I’ll save that for another time.
Therefore, the son of Mary was just as human as you, or I and in the flash a descendent of Adam. Hs had to put Adam’s nature to death every day and finally destroy it on the cross. When he walked out of that tomb, Adam’s nature was left behind he was a new creature, divinity, and humanity married into one, and this is the gift he offers to all of us.
I believe He was derived from an egg in Mary’s ovary, which got jumpstarted and a Y chromosome was added so that the child would be a boy. The Son of God who is a spirit was manifest in him from conception, I believe he was chosen by the God head before creation because they knew he would be faithful and surrender to all of their leading. He was the model man, the prime example of what it means to have God living in you and controlling your life while destroying the old man. I believe his life, death and resurrection, was a living parable of the plan of redemption, showing us that we too must lay down our life and allow the Son of God full control. He will lead us to our individual crosses and workout are own salvation with fear and trembling for it is God’s Son who is working in us both to will and do according to His good pleasure. I expect there might be some questions or clarification and I am fully willing to look into this with an open heart.
I believe the problem that nominal Christians have is that they want to make Jesus into some kind of super God man, which is how he went through life without sin. In that way they can have an excuse that they are only human and they cannot help but sin. They tend to say things like oh are you saying you’re God. Are you saying you are perfect? Those are gotcha questions that no matter how you answer they can write you off as a loony. The question they should be asking is how can I have this life? What they failed to see is that God is offering such an unbelievably wonderful gift in His Son to each, and every one of us that we too, may demonstrate to the devil and the universe that God is able to do abundantly above what we could ever imagine to redeem lost humanity.

 

[rob]

Greetings "

You say" The Son of God who is a spirit was manifest in him from conception, I believe he was chosen by the God head before creation because they knew he would be faithful and surrender to all of their leading.


What do you mean “is a spirit”?

Where does EGW infinitely define elohiym as a spirit? Or does she allow the fuzzy Greek translation to be simply quoted?

I would translate the phrase in Hebrew as “Elohiym [is ] mediumic”, and this shows that the Father Son and the Shadday all manifest themselves via the grand medium, who is termed in the KJV as the ruwach, or Holy Spirit, a function.

I find we have hijacked the term “spirit” into some other meanings it was not supposed to be using traditions and precepts of men, my two pennies.

Mrs Whites say the “nature of the medium” is a mystery and silence is golden. I agree.

When you talk of “familiar spirits” invading into our very “living energy” the Hebrew word for this is “orb” and I can handle this term because we have a Hebrew word for this idea.


How the cherubims enter the soul of our minds is a profound mystery, hence the message, silence is golden

You say “ that we too must lay down our life and allow the Son of God full control.”

Hmm? I would say we have to have faith in Jesus, just as Jesus has faith in His Father.
In fact the moral law is founded upon faith and faith principles. (See Ps 119:86)

By supporting Jesus daily via genuine faith we are asking for His Divine Powers to be combined with our humanity, just as Jesus combined his earthly nature with His Father’s Divine powers. Faith is the only way to experience Divine Powers living and working in us.

You say “ He will lead us to our individual crosses and workout are own salvation with fear and trembling for it is God’s Son who is working in us both to will and do according to His good pleasure.

My faviourite verse for the empowered living decisions is this one:


Pr 16:9 ¶ A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.


Here the man’s flesh heart “lab” decides our courses in life, but the Jesus-YHWH daily gets us there. How does He do this? We ask for specific things in the “faith promises” and He gives us the “divine powers” because we ask for them.

It is a relationship worked out with fear and trembling yes. And relationships are technically not owned by any one party, so we are both supporting each other. Elohiym is about community support and relational love.

You say” I expect there might be some questions or clarification and I am fully willing to look into this with an open heart.

Great, I am glad we can converse together on things.

Your say “ Those are gotcha questions that no matter how you answer they can write you off as a loony.


Ho 9:7 ¶ ..the spiritual man is mad,


“The mediumic man is mad” many think I have a fetish for genuine faith, and I was challenged so much over this, I had to leave my local church for now. I have tried to have a meeting with the local Pastor over confirmation about learning what genuine faith is, but he did not embrace the new light I experienced from Jesus.

John says this profound thing:

1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

This is a correct KJV translation as it reads.

To yada Jesus, with intimacy, we ask for faith promises and dwell in His Divine powers.


If you have a look at the only Bible verse that defines the Steps of Christ,


Hosea 14:2 , It defines genuine faith as “take with you words”
And Mrs White parallel defines genuine faith as “take to yourself precious promises”


The statements is an exact match.

The word “take” comes in two forms, verb and noun, so means “take/taking”

A taking is a personal experience you have with the words of God, not a doctrine as translations make out. Hence the reason why we read Scripture is to increase our faith.
Than we speak those taking as “faith promises” to Him, our Saviour, awaiting for the Divine Power to combine with the human request, so His doings work in and through us. Than the tongue speaks again in praise and gratitude.
Notice the tongue begins faith and ends faith, both times the tongue in mentioned in Hosea 14:2

You say “ they failed to see is that God is offering such an unbelievably wonderful gift in His Son to each,

Hmm? I would say not one in twenty SDA people know genuine faith as a process, and we dabble in faith all our lives, like I did without catching its significance. I spent 45 years knowing the verse of Hosea 14:2 in great detail but never knew it was also defining genuine faith. I too was blind, but now I see.


I never knew Mrs White wrote “to appropriate by faith in the precious promises of the word of God” and I did have a clue what this meant? But now I do.


I found confirmation in A T Jones who wrote what I support:

A.T. Jones: "Anyone who seeks in the word of God forthe specific thingswhich God has provided and then bowsupon that specific word for that thing, is asking according to the plainly expressed will of God, and knows that his prayer is heard and that he has the thing for which he prayed. So doing,the prayers will be always certain, the life will be filled with the direct gifts of God, and the faith will be sure and strong and will be ever increasing in strength

Amazing but he never wrote more - I suspect He found and was discouraged.

Instead listening to faith FM radio I find my Pastors speaking the omega apostasy in ignorance, and such Gnostic principles have been in our church for decades already. Mrs White says to “let it alone” I wish I have found this verse years ago, instead I am mocked by others all the time.

More: https://spiritualsprings.proboards.com/thread/43/confirmation-understanding-genuine-faith

Once when I was challenged by Dr Peterson, the than head of new light in the SDA division:

He said “Your claims should have numerous clear texts”

I challenge anybody out there, where is the clear and numerous texts on defining genuine faith in the Bible? There is only one verse, because Jesus (Hosea mispelling) wrote about genuine faith in infinite detail in an entire scroll in the OT already.

But we are blind to the verses like I was for over 45 years. We see but we don’t see.

Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness

This is a faith promise, the third wonder of wonders promised in Scripture.


Isa 29:19 The meek also shall increase their joy in the LORD,


Meek in Ancient Hebrew has the eye in the word, just as humble also has an eye. Humility is looking out for other people, while meek is looking intently to Jesus. Both are similar word meanings, but the eye looks at different things.


It is my two pennies we have to have a fetish for Jesus, to look at Him via genuine faith. Shalom

 

[Le Roy]

Greetings "

You say" The Son of God who is a spirit was manifest in him from conception, I believe he was chosen by the God head before creation because they knew he would be faithful and surrender to all of their leading.


What do you mean “is a spirit”?

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." John 4:24

Ho 9:7 ¶ ..the spiritual man is mad,

I read this text as well a few around it and I must confess I don't understand its meaning

“The mediumic man is mad” many think I have a fetish for genuine faith, and I was challenged so much over this, I had to leave my local church for now. I have tried to have a meeting with the local Pastor over confirmation about learning what genuine faith is, but he did not embrace the new light I experienced from Jesus.

Yes I have had the same experience. For most it is like the lights are on but nobody is home. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned

John says this profound thing:

1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

There is a textual trail that leads to the understanding of these words in 1John 3.
Psalm 2:7 "...thou art my son this day I have begotten thee.." In Acts 13:32-33 Paul declares that to be a prophecy of the resurrection. We believe that during his life Jesus could have failed to obey, he could have sinned, for he had the human nature that came from Adam, but he crucified it daily. When He came out of that tomb he was born again a new creature, Adam's nature remained behind, it was destroyed. Satan was a defeated foe, he had no power over him. All power in heaven and earth were His and he was raised up to sit at the right hand of the Father. We were in him through his death and resurrection.
Romans 6 makes this very clear.
"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin."
God declares that His experience is ours. He has given us a new nature, a divine nature. The death and resurrection is symbolized in the new birth. "this day I have begotten thee"
Also we too are begotten again and raised up together with Him to sit in heavenly places, We were translated into the kingdom as well.

Whosoever is born of God (out of the garden tomb) does not commit sin. for His Seed remains in him and he cannot sin for he is begotten again of God, ... Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 1John 3:9 and 1Peter 1:23

I never knew Mrs White wrote “to appropriate by faith in the precious promises of the word of God” and I did have a clue what this meant? But now I do.

My instruction as a youth and even as an adult, about the temptation in the wilderness was if you are tempted, come up with a clever verse and the devil will go away. As enlightenment has come, it was like the devil was saying, "So you're the Son of God? Look at you. I can't see it. Why don't you prove it by turning one of these stones into a loaf of bread and fill your need. It wasn't about bread or hunger, he was being questioned as to who he was. 40 days prior he had heard from his Father's mouth that he was His Son. The subtle insinuation of doubt was his weapon of choice. Just as Eve was confronted about appetite. The real issue was can God's word be trusted. By a covert issuance of doubt he led her into disobedience.
Our lives must be by every word from Father we are to live. Do I believe that I was crucified and that I am dead? After all he that is dead is free from sin. Do I believe that the devil has no power over me?
IF YOU WHAT TO KNOW THE QUALITY OF YOUR FAITH.... LOOK AT YOUR LIFE!

More: https://spiritualsprings.proboards.com/thread/43/confirmation-understanding-genuine-faith

The quote from A.T. Jones that was posted, states this, "Anyone who seeks in the word of God... " May I suggest a more excellent way? A deeper understanding? Just as Jesus lived by the words from the Father's mouth, He neither said nor did anything on His own. He moved and spoke as He was directed. His life was ordered by that still small voice and it was his anchor. I am not suggesting we avoid reading the Bible for we may read things that jump off the page that give us instructions. However, the Father can use any circumstance, medium, person or animal to instruct us. Even through Godless people He can speak if we are awake. What kind of things did Jesus pray for? Having given up all His prerogatives as Deity He had no power that did not come from without. He was limited to the inherited abilities and weaknesses of Mary's son. That, I believe, was the focus of His prayers. How could this humanity bear its weaknesses and survive without the Father with Him. How could He reach the people entrusted to His care.
However, we so often look in scripture for promises to meet our fleshly needs, rather than listen and obey. seeking first the kingdom and all the other stuff will be supplied. When we are dead to self there is a quietness within that needs nothing because we know Who is leading us. I believe that God supplies all things necessary including what we need to pray for or about.

From A.T. Jones, “faith which works,”

He said “Your claims should have numerous clear texts”

Evidently he was not use to hearing the words that came from the Father's mouth. He only trusted on words on a page, he had his list of do's and don'ts.


"The Saviour was deeply anxious for His disciples to understand for what purpose His divinity was united to humanity. He came to the world to display the glory of God, that man might be uplifted by its restoring power. God was manifested in Him that He might be manifested in them. Jesus revealed no qualities, and exercised no powers, that men may not have through faith in Him. His perfect humanity is that which all His followers may possess, if they will be in subjection to God as He was." DA 664

"The Lord will teach us our duty just as willingly as He will teach somebody else. If we come to Him in faith, He will speak His mysteries to us personally. Our hearts will often burn within us as One draws nigh to commune with us as He did with Enoch. Those who decide to do nothing in any line that will displease God, will know, after presenting their case before Him, just what course to pursue."

 

[rob]

Greetings

You say: “Our lives must be by every word from Father we are to live. Do I believe that I was crucified and that I am dead? After all he that is dead is free from sin.
I would say it differently, that unless I am experiencing genuine faith in the Father by supporting His Son and the Son supporting me with His Divine Powers, I am nothing in the eyes of God. Without faith you cannot please Him.
This dead human you speak of is the heart that is circumcised by God. It’s an idiom meaning God wants to remove our tendency to use human powers and replace it with divine powers instead. Faith is the tool for making us dead. Enjoy living in Divine power every day because we ask for this.

You say :"May I suggest a more excellent way? A deeper understanding?

You seem to be saying the same as I do, that Jesus lived entirely by faith in His Father and the powers He used were the Father’s powers given to Jesus because He asked. The same way we can ask of Jesus, who came in human form in the same fallen nature as humans have, to show us that faith can overcome any obstacle, any weakness, so that no human can make an excuse.

You say “ However, we so often look in scripture for promises to meet our fleshly needs, rather than listen and obey.

Hmm? I am lost, you present a different approach, I would like to learn?
If you seek “faith promises” for fleshy needs, I would call this presumption, because you cannot ask for “Faith promises” with selfish as an attitude. God will not grant his Divine powers to be used in this way.

When you try genuine faith things go wrong | Spiritualsprings

When you begin the process of living by genuine faith, your Opposer ups His game of opposing you and helping you break faith more and more often. This also occurs with you committi

spiritualsprings.proboards.com

This link gives some insights into my own personal genuine faith experience:
it’s easy reading and honest in it’s presentation with my own colleagues around me.


You presented "Evidently he was not use to hearing the words that came from the Father's mouth. He only trusted on words on a page, he had his list of do's and don'ts.

And I say “well said my friend, I agree whole heartedly.

You quote :"Jesus revealed no qualities, and exercised no powers, that men may not have through faith in Him. His perfect humanity is that which all His followers may possess, if they will be in subjection to God as He was." DA 664

And I say “well said my friend, I agree genuine faith is the key for our salvation process.

Finally you report "If we come to Him in faith, He will speak His mysteries to us personally. Our hearts will often burn within us as One draws nigh to commune with us as He did with Enoch.
Yes I experience that too, it’s fun to be driving some hours and talking to God on some topic and He present a new thought to you. I pull over and write it down so I will not forget the words of the Lord presented to me. How joyous to experience such communion !!!
Thank you for presenting the same pages....

My nephew Emmanuel Higgins has built a very impressive AI machine that handles EGW material very well.

The link is : Advent AI - Discover Truth

If your free trial runs out, try to log in under Google and try again.

I tried this question: Advent AI :"Please quote where EGW using "God [is] a spirit" in her paragraph message?

Answer: I couldn't find any relevant matching quotes that specifically use the phrase "God [is] a spirit" within a paragraph message.

Rob: Yes as I suspect, Mrs White does not comment upon this fuzzy translation “God [is a] spirit.

Try the AI machine with some complex questions and let me know your views? Shalom