The Trinity Controversy | Randy Skeete

OK if a angel came to die for human sins on earth? Why is this required?
How does the angel offer us His life for the human life exchange when the angels life is borrowed from Jehovah since the angel is a created creature? Does the JW answer this question?

The purpose of a sacrifice is to offer you life for His life. So where does the life of an angel come from to offer life to himself?
It can't. So the angel dies in the cross experience !

The JW say the spirit son returns back to Jehovah as before.

How is this any different to the sacrifice of a sinless animal?

It's not.

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

A goat or lamb cannot offer us life, neither can the blood of an angel?

So your JW jesus angel blood sacrifice means nothing. It has no life.

One has to offer divine blood "life" - life only comes from Jehovah

an angel is not immortal - it has no life - it only has borrowed life

Shalom
 
I was talking about God's holy (set aside) spirit (breath, wind).
Yes JW only see breath as a force from Jehovah, not a personal being like the SDA does.

If the breath is the Most High force, why don't we die immediately from the Most High power living in sinners?
How does the power from the Most HIgh get diminished enough to sustain a sinner?
The JW has no idea? You require a medium function - the HS.
 
Nice reply JW. So this "spirit son" of Jehovah is a trick upon people

In John 17

Joh 17:1 ¶ These words spake Jesus Angel, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father Jehovah, the hour is come; glorify thy Son as your Jesus Angel, that thy Son Jesus angel also may glorify thee:

And in Ps 110:1

Ps 110:1 ¶ The LORD said unto my "Logus Angel" Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Funny the Bible Hebrew does not use these terms

Heb 1:4 ¶ Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Your JW BIble lists these verses OK,

So Jesus is better than angels?
Which angel does Jehovah make as His SON?

He doesn't.

So your whole Logus Angel Jesus Angel thing is bogus . Sorry

It's easy to prove in Hebrew, but you want me to quit using hebrew.

Shalom

Nice sarcasm! I MEAN it!
Once again you are letting your dogma get in the way!
"as he hath by inheritance OBTAINED a more excellent name than they"
He didn't have one before.
 
Nice sarcasm! I MEAN it!
Once again you are letting your dogma get in the way!
"as he hath by inheritance OBTAINED a more excellent name than they"
He didn't have one before.
My friend I never write sarcasm. Hebrew words have very specific but broad meanings. Greek is no different.
The word "pater" and the word "huios" mean a real Father and His Son.
And angel can never be a "son"

Now I get the term often used "sons of God" . but this is term for ??
You may are right, how would we know the term is meant biologically by blood or adopted into a family by faith?

Heb 1:4 ¶ Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

This passage you twist is saying to me the Christ is not an angel, and is better than angels. It uses the term Father and Son in their literal biological sense, not an adopted sense, is my two pennies.

How do you get a "one and only" from a billion possible angels God could have chosen. Your logic is bad.

This passage helps me but does not help you. Christ was not an angel.
 
My friend I never write sarcasm. Hebrew words have very specific but broad meanings. Greek is no different.
The word "pater" and the word "huios" mean a real Father and His Son.
And angel can never be a "son"

Now I get the term often used "sons of God" . but this is term for ??
You may are right, how would we know the term is meant biologically by blood or adopted into a family by faith?

Heb 1:4 ¶ Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

This passage you twist is saying to me the Christ is not an angel, and is better than angels. It uses the term Father and Son in their literal biological sense, not an adopted sense, is my two pennies.

How do you get a "one and only" from a billion possible angels God could have chosen. Your logic is bad.

This passage helps me but does not help you. Christ was not an angel.

I can not help you if you interpret the scriptures with Church Spin.
 
I can not help you if you interpret the scriptures with Church Spin.
What? What about you? The only religion that supports the idea of God choosing an angel for a son.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Strange names for a mere angel to be called don't you think?
 
"as he hath by inheritance OBTAINED a more excellent name than they"

He didn't have one before.
SO God chooses one angel among a billion angels to have a better inheritance than all other billion angels?

How does this angel become a one and only angel?
 
OK if a angel came to die for human sins on earth? Why is this required?
How does the angel offer us His life for the human life exchange when the angels life is borrowed from Jehovah since the angel is a created creature? Does the JW answer this question?

The purpose of a sacrifice is to offer you life for His life. So where does the life of an angel come from to offer life to himself?
It can't. So the angel dies in the cross experience !

The JW say the spirit son returns back to Jehovah as before.

How is this any different to the sacrifice of a sinless animal?

It's not.

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

A goat or lamb cannot offer us life, neither can the blood of an angel?

So your JW jesus angel blood sacrifice means nothing. It has no life.

One has to offer divine blood "life" - life only comes from Jehovah

an angel is not immortal - it has no life - it only has borrowed life

Shalom

You say GOD did!
 
OK if a angel came to die for human sins on earth? Why is this required?
How does the angel offer us His life for the human life exchange when the angels life is borrowed from Jehovah since the angel is a created creature? Does the JW answer this question?

The purpose of a sacrifice is to offer you life for His life. So where does the life of an angel come from to offer life to himself?
It can't. So the angel dies in the cross experience !

The JW say the spirit son returns back to Jehovah as before.

How is this any different to the sacrifice of a sinless animal?

It's not.

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

A goat or lamb cannot offer us life, neither can the blood of an angel?

So your JW jesus angel blood sacrifice means nothing. It has no life.

One has to offer divine blood "life" - life only comes from Jehovah

an angel is not immortal - it has no life - it only has borrowed life

Shalom
Maybe the reason why you laugh is because you can't answer my questions?
 
You say GOD did!
Yes correct because only God has life, all other creatures have only borrowed life

Here is the Verse

Ex 21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

Life for life, that is your life is required to be given for all eternity. so only infinite God could pay this price

An angel could give his life, but could not come back to life, because his life is only borrowed from God

Hope this makes sense?
 
Greetings gentlemen, Happy Sabbath

I would like a SDA person to answer this question.

Why do we use the word "Trinity" in our creed, when it is a invented word and comes with baggage, ie : the precepts and traditions of men?

And just what Hebrew word do you make equivalent to "trinity" too?

Most people I talk to, ie SDA people, do not like me using Hebrew words, yet somehow we are happy to make a creed, one Hebrew word meaning into a English word meaning as a Creed. This is very dangerous indeed and suggests we know all the translation meanings of the Bible surrounding that word.

Let me give you an example:

EGW: "He [Jesus] pointed His hearers to the Ruler of the universe, under the new name, “Our Father.” He would have them understand how tenderly the heart of God yearned over them. He teaches that God cares for every lost soul; that “like as a father pitieth his children, so the Lord pitieth them that fear Him.” Psalm 103:13. Such a conception of God was never given to the world by any religion but that of the Bible. Heathenism teaches men to look upon the Supreme Being as an object of fear rather than of love—a malign deity to be appeased by sacrifices, rather than a Father pouring upon His children the gift of His love. Even the people of Israel had become so blinded to the precious teaching of the prophets concerning God that this revelation of His paternal love was as an original subject, a new gift to the world. {MB 74.1}

In this example, Elohiym Power, especially the Most High is under a NEW name, Our Father.

What than was the Most High OLD name? Nobody in the SDA goes looking. Not even the SDA Bible research institute, who never allows ordinary SDA citizens to contact them anymore. Notice this new name relates to His paternal love.
You do not get that love from "trinity" or "trinity so called discussions"

So where has Israel become blinded concerning GOD? Well we could look in the Oldest Hebrew scroll for clues.

Job 4:1 ¶ Then Eliphaz the Temanite answered and said,

Job 4:9 By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed.
In the Hebrew words here, nashamah is the breathing breath of Eloah, the Most High Old Name,
and Ruwach HS is also termed a breath of His nose.

Job 4:15 Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up:
The ruwach causes a vision and a dream to this young man.

Job 4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
The Hebrew word under God here is Eloah, the Old Name for the Most High


18 Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly:

Here Eloah has no faith in his servant messengers of heaven, meaning some angels sin and do folly.
This is the oldest declaration of sin every recorded in the Scriptures, long before mankind ever sinned.
Something Jews do not consider.

Job 5:12 He disappointeth the devices of the crafty, so that their hands cannot perform their enterprise.
13 He taketh the wise in their own craftiness: and the counsel of the froward is carried headlong.
14 They meet with darkness in the daytime,

Here the young man speaks of the arum and their deeds. Notice they meet in darkness even in the daytime.
In other words such arum creatures switch contrast themes back to front.

Job 5:17 ¶ Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:

In this statement God is Eloah, His Old Name and Almighty is Shadday, the HS Old name.
What is especially significant about this book of Job and both of these old Names are used dozens of times more than Elohiym.

Why? Because these are the paternal Names of a Divine Family.

Even the people of Israel had become so blinded to the precious teaching of the prophets concerning God that this revelation of His paternal love was as an original subject, a new gift to the world. {MB 74.1}

We can supply at least 20 EGW confirming Elohim power is a Divine Family Power, yet for some reason we have decided to evoke the Hebrew words of the Bible and pretend to know the Hebrew implicitly using the English word "trinity". Not even close.

EGW: "Through Christ men and women have been adopted into the divine family as sons and daughters of God. They are given every advantage of the Saviour’s power and redeeming love.—Manuscript 85, 1899, 1-16

Does the Bible speak of Elohiym power as a Family? Only one verse:

Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God "Elohiym",
Eph 3:14 ¶ For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

Shalom
 
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